Conservatives stealing another Labour policy?

[Darat]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/voting/story/0,15920,1471329,00.html

…snip…

Police have launched an investigation into a Bradford Conservative councillor at the centre of postal vote fraud allegations, it has emerged.

The Conservative party also confirmed that Jamshed Khan, a councillor in the Labour-held marginal Bradford West parliamentary constituency, has resigned his party whip.

Concerns were raised after the Times newspaper discovered that 13 people from Mr Khan's address had registered for a postal vote.

A further 12 people were found to be registered to vote at a derelict house that Land Registry records show he co-owned until last year.

…snip…

 

[Matabiri]

Did you watch Newsnight last night? At one point David Davis stole a Lib Dem policy in front of everyone's eyes. I was so impressed I've forgotten exactly what it was, but I think it was one of the crime and punishment ones.

 

[Darat]

Did you watch Newsnight last night? At one point David Davis stole a Lib Dem policy in front of everyone's eyes. I was so impressed I've forgotten exactly what it was, but I think it was one of the crime and punishment ones.

He should be arrested!

I missed the Newsnight debate, was it any good?

 

[Matabiri]

He should be arrested!

I missed the Newsnight debate, was it any good?

It was okay. Wasn't really a debate, of course; three specially selected audiences (for immigration, crime, and security/terrorism) asked questions, and the three potential home secretaries responded. Mark Oaten generally made the most sense, but no-one was really listening. Davis got a few good swipes into Charles Clarke, but Clarke probably got him in the car park afterwards.

Davis said that, if the technology was there, the Tories would introduce ID cards tomorrow, amongst other things.

Slightly worryingly, many of the audience seemed to be with Davis by the end.

You can watch it all here.

 

[richardm]

Slightly worryingly, many of the audience seemed to be with Davis by the end.

That may be a slightly misleading impression though, because of the way the audience was divided up into segments. Each segment had identified a particular issue as being most important to them.

The last section of the programme was the "Crime and Punishment" bit, and all the people in that segment held the "This country is going to hell in a handbasket" opinion. (A show of hands for a question along the lines of "Who thinks crime is under control" had no hands up!).

So I think it's unsurprising that they'd rally behind the "Build more prisons and lock them up forever" policy Davis was espousing.

I could misremember, though; there's something about these programmes that leave me and Mrs richardm drinking steadily and railing at the television

 

[Matabiri]

I could misremember, though; there's something about these programmes that leave me and Mrs richardm drinking steadily and railing at the television

Best thing about them. It's interactive.

The "theft" I remember, incidentally, is the lifting of Mark Oaten's comment starting about 7:20 for David Davis comment starting about 9:40 (times referenced to the link above).

(I paraphrase)

Oaten: I strongly opposed ID cards; it's important that in combatting terrorism, we do not take away the civil liberties that we value. If we do, the terrorists have won.

Later, Davis (having already said he was all in favour of ID cards): We have to balance actions with civil liberties... if we take those away, the terrorists have won.

(There were probably others later, but I was also railing at the TV and may have missed them.)

 

[Skeptic]

(sigh)

Will you make up your minds?

When the conservative do X and their opponents do Y, you cry how the conservatives are ignoring the obvious reality that Y is the better policy.

Now that the their opponents do Y and the conservatives decide that Y is a good idea as well, you whine that the conservatives are stealing their opponents' thunder.

You can't have it both ways, guys...

 

[Darat]

(sigh)

Will you make up your minds?

When the conservative do X and their opponents do Y, you cry how the conservatives are ignoring the obvious reality that Y is the better policy.

Now that the their opponents do Y and the conservatives decide that Y is a good idea as well, you whine that the conservatives are stealing their opponents' thunder.

You can't have it both ways, guys...

Did you read the OP? Oh and Conservative should have a capital C in the above to make any sense in the context of this thread.

 

[richardm]

You can't have it both ways, guys...

It's not us who's trying to have it both ways, it's David Davis. It is one thing to think carefully about a policy and then change your mind, it's quite another to do it within the space of a two hour programme. One could conclude that it's either (1) a cynical ploy to try to be all things to all men or (2) yet another example of the Conservatives being uncertain exactly what their policy is.

To return to the OP, it does make you wonder whether this press towards more postal voting really is a good idea. On the one hand it does seem to substantially increase the number of votes cast. On the other hand it appears that there are only two or three extra physical voters

Okay, so a slight exaggeration. Does the increase in turnout overall overcome the potential few votes obtained by cheating? The Electoral Reform Commission don't seem too worried at the moment (past "Banana Republic" comments notwithstanding).

 

[Darat]

...snip...

Okay, so a slight exaggeration. Does the increase in turnout overall overcome the potential few votes obtained by cheating? The Electoral Reform Commission don't seem too worried at the moment (past "Banana Republic" comments notwithstanding).

What concerns me about it is why it should significantly increase voter turn out?

This is entirely from personal experience but it seems registering for a postal vote and then casting it takes more effort then walking to your nearest polling station in the what 14 hours they are open? Surely if you were that concerned about voting you would have voted anyway?

I can understand it makes it more convenient for some people, but if they are going to bother going through the process for a postal vote wouldn’t they have managed to get to the polling station anyway?

 

[richardm]

I don't really understand that either. I guess the difference is that you have to make a special effort to go to the polling station (admittedly not much of one, but still), whereas you can organise your postal vote from the comfort of your own home and then drop it into any postbox when you happen to be passing.

Also, at the last election some first-time voters of my acquaintance weren't going to vote because, as they said, "what's the point". However after a bit of to-and-fro it transpired that they were unclear about what the voting process entailed, and were actually worried about the whole thing. They didn't want to put themselves into a position where they didn't know what they were doing and might be embarrassed. Yes, really.

I took them down with me in the end, and they all went.

So perhaps there are other phobics of various kinds who worry about some element of the process, and are happier being able to do it remotely.

I dunno. Just a thought!

 

[Matabiri]

This is entirely from personal experience but it seems registering for a postal vote and then casting it takes more effort then walking to your nearest polling station in the what 14 hours they are open? Surely if you were that concerned about voting you would have voted anyway?

Registering for a postal vote where I live was a case of ticking a box on the registration form (I recently moved and had to re-register anyway). In many other places, I think it just involves signing a form (which is sent to you unsolicited) and sticking it back in the post (or handing it to canvassers, in some cases - the law allows applications for postal votes to go through them, so long as they pass it on to the local electoral people within 24 or 48 hours).

You never have to leave your own house.