Split Thread Conservative Voices (Split from Muller Investigation)

[River]

I suspected this may be a silly exercise in civility, but I'm curious what many here seem to think of other "conservative" voices out there. Examples like Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Ben Carson, Clarance Thomas, Rand Paul, Trey Gowdy, Condoleezza Rice? This forum seems to be very left leaning. I remember it being more about critical thinking in the past.

 

[LSSBB]

I suspected this may be a silly exercise in civility, but I'm curious what many here seem to think of other "conservative" voices out there. Examples like Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Ben Carson, Clarance Thomas, Rand Paul, Trey Gowdy, Condoleezza Rice? This forum seems to be very left leaning. I remember it being more about critical thinking in the past.

Well, there's Tom Nichols, George Will, and Ben Shapiro. Plus The Skeptical Conservative on Facebook.

Also on the Libertarian side, Veterans for Libertarianism on Facebook.

Speaking as a conservative, though. So I might be biased. And I certainly don't agree with everything Ben Shapiro says, but he is right on other things.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The problem with TV pundits is that they are only part of a larger story their Network is pushing: this is true for Fox and MSNBC alike.
In many cases it seems that they are not really giving us their opinion, but a facet of a larger opinion, targeted to a specific audience.
Fox is an extreme case, since they want to cover the entire conservative spectrum.

 

[smartcooky]

I suspected this may be a silly exercise in civility, but I'm curious what many here seem to think of other "conservative" voices out there. Examples like Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Ben Carson, Clarance Thomas, Rand Paul, Trey Gowdy, Condoleezza Rice? This forum seems to be very left leaning. I remember it being more about critical thinking in the past.

Is it really left leaning? Or, as is far more likely, is it that the narcissistic knobhead in the White House masquerading as a President, along with his retinue of racists, bigots and white nationalists, are so far right of centre that they make Dubya and HW look like left wing ideologists?

As I have said previously, my attitudes are slightly right of centre (mildly conservative) with a few lefties thrown in. My rightness leads me to hate political correctness; my leftness leads me to care about the environment to the point that I am a financial supporter of both Greenpeace and SSCS. However, Trump and his vile bunch of hangers-on make me ashamed to admit that I have any conservative bent at all.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

copied over from the Mueller thread:

This forum seems to be very left leaning. I remember it being more about critical thinking in the past.

that is one explanation.

the other is that Republicans have moved sharply to the right as a reaction to the Obama presidency.

There is plenty evidence for the latter.

 

[River]

Is it really left leaning? Or, as is far more likely, is it that the narcissistic knobhead in the White House masquerading as a President, along with his retinue of racists, bigots and white nationalists, are so far right of centre that they make Dubya and HW look like left wing ideologists?

As I have said previously, my attitudes are slightly right of centre (mildly conservative) with a few lefties thrown in. My rightness leads me to hate political correctness; my leftness leads me to care about the environment to the point that I am a financial supporter of both Greenpeace and SSCS. However, Trump and his vile bunch of hangers-on make me ashamed to admit that I have any conservative bent at all.

It is true that some conservatives may find Trump so revolting that they abandon identifying as such. However, the same can be said of the left which has seemingly become all about socialism, and the "progressive" globalist voice. So the right went more right, and the left went more left. Now what?

 

[River]

copied over from the Mueller thread:



that is one explanation.

the other is that Republicans have moved sharply to the right as a reaction to the Obama presidency.

There is plenty evidence for the latter.

As is there is plenty evidence of the left going further left as well. IMHO the democratic party should consider branching off into two parties.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

So the right went more right, and the left went more left. Now what?

I would argue that this is objectively not true: with Obama, the Left went into the Center, leaving the GOP no choice but to move Right in order to create enough contrast.
For example, remember that the ACA was a Republican invention, yet once Obama picked it up, it was portrayed as a far-left socialist plot to destroy capitalism.

 

[Mumbles]

I suspected this may be a silly exercise in civility, but I'm curious what many here seem to think of other "conservative" voices out there. Examples like Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Ben Carson, Clarance Thomas, Rand Paul, Trey Gowdy, Condoleezza Rice? This forum seems to be very left leaning. I remember it being more about critical thinking in the past.

Rice is somewhat respectable. There were areas where I agree with Paul, such as police militarization - but his "advise" to Cheeto Benito makes it clear that he to has to go. Gowdy is a showboater. Thomas' opinions are downright goofball.

Shapiro, Owens, and Elder are grifters and frauds (not a single one of the three believe what they say from what I can tell), as is Carson these days - that last one is a shame given that he used to be a local hero.

The fact that the "conservative" movement is at this point grifters, white supremacists, and grifting white supremacists, rather than anything approaching actual conservatism, is not my doing - and there's an argument for why a party that's actually offering alternate solutions to issues instead of just cheering whenever a cop or vigilante murders someone for being black, but since we don't have one, I see no viable option but to vote for democrats at the national level.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

And let's not forget the number of Conservative Voices that had to quit this year because advertisers no longer wanted to support their extreme views.

 

[River]

I think many within the democratic and republican parties would rather have the agendas move more towards center than either extreme. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be appealing to anyone in the voter booth (the public) just yet.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I think many within the democratic and republican parties would rather have the agendas move more towards center than either extreme. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be appealing to anyone in the voter booth (the public) just yet.

I think you are wrong:
Politics, even more than than Nature, abhors a vacuum. If one party moves to an extreme, the gap in the middle is filled by another party by default.

 

[uke2se]

Saying that the Democratic party has moved to the left is frankly ludicrous. Obama was a centrist at best. A new crop of young candidates seem determined to actually move it further left, but even if they were successful, they would simply make the party the equivalent of a center-left European party.

As for Ben Shapiro and his cronies, Mumbles said it best. They're in it for the ad-revenue, grifting gullible right wingers.

 

[Brainster]

Saying that the Democratic party has moved to the left is frankly ludicrous. Obama was a centrist at best.

Yeah, lots of them centrist community organizers running around. Obama tried to govern from the left in 2009-2010, but after the Republican congress came in, he mimicked Bill Clinton and triangulated.

A new crop of young candidates seem determined to actually move it further left, but even if they were successful, they would simply make the party the equivalent of a center-left European party.

Well, usually people say the Democrats would be center-right in Europe, so I can see the argument.

As for Ben Shapiro and his cronies, Mumbles said it best. They're in it for the ad-revenue, grifting gullible right wingers.

Hey, did you see that there's a new Michael Moore film coming out?

 

[uke2se]

Hey, did you see that there's a new Michael Moore film coming out?

I figured you'd be better than using an obvious tu quoque.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

I suspected this may be a silly exercise in civility, but I'm curious what many here seem to think of other "conservative" voices out there. Examples like Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Ben Carson, Clarance Thomas, Rand Paul, Trey Gowdy, Condoleezza Rice? This forum seems to be very left leaning. I remember it being more about critical thinking in the past.

This, taken from a skeptic's point of view, includes avoiding any packaged ideology like an intellectual plague. This eliminates supporting left or right policies as anything other than imperfect compromises built of often flawed analyses of incomplete data, and staying as far away as possible from elevating laboratory models of social theory to the level of "truths."

Politics is the art of the possible given constraints. The first is tribalism, the second irrationality, the third ignorance, the fourth status and hierarchy as practiced among duplicitous apex predators, and the last: every single generation is born in the cave, with each successive one needing to learn and accept more and more just to keep from ending civilization with the latest fruits of that knowledge.

The above factors conspire to transform ideal visions into real nightmares. Best course: muddle through and laugh off the chest-beating declarations of purity and infinite goodness, no matter the wit or uniform. And pray this generation does not hit that little red button.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

This forum seems to be very left leaning. I remember it being more about critical thinking in the past.

Don't know if there was ever any "critical thinking" in the past, but this pretty much sums up the present:

"Grifters, frauds, and white supremacists... cheering whenever a cop murders someone for being black... vote for democrats."​

 

[carlitos]

I listen to lots of stuff, and can't think of a single conservative pundit that is a must-listen for me. On the Libertarian side, I really like the Fifth Column podcast, which features Matt Welch from Reason magazine and Michael Moynihan from Vice News.

And yes this forum is left-leaning. Geez.

 

[acbytesla]

Is it really left leaning? Or, as is far more likely, is it that the narcissistic knobhead in the White House masquerading as a President, along with his retinue of racists, bigots and white nationalists, are so far right of centre that they make Dubya and HW look like left wing ideologists?

As I have said previously, my attitudes are slightly right of centre (mildly conservative) with a few lefties thrown in. My rightness leads me to hate political correctness; my leftness leads me to care about the environment to the point that I am a financial supporter of both Greenpeace and SSCS. However, Trump and his vile bunch of hangers-on make me ashamed to admit that I have any conservative bent at all.

You're Pete McCloskey.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Is it really left leaning? Or, as is far more likely, is it that the narcissistic knobhead in the White House masquerading as a President, along with his retinue of racists, bigots and white nationalists, are so far right of centre that they make Dubya and HW look like left wing ideologists?

Fox Business host Lou Dobbs called George W Bush a "liberal" a little while ago