Comments from Cosby

[crimresearch]

Given how this forum showed it's disinterest in anything that might actually help the black community the last time Bill Cosby spoke, it will be interesting to see how quickly this one drops.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040702/ap_en_mo/cosby_comments_9

" Cosby made headlines in May when he upbraided some poor blacks for their grammar and accused them of squandering opportunities the civil rights movement gave them. He shot back Thursday, saying his detractors were trying in vain to hide the black community's "dirty laundry."


"Let me tell you something, your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other n------ as they're walking up and down the street," Cosby said during an appearance at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition & Citizenship Education Fund's annual conference."

 

[Hutch]

You beat me to posting it, crimrearch, albeit I was using CNN for a resource....

Whatever your political views, Ya just gotta love Jesse Jackson's expression in the background.....

Seriously, this argument has been going on in the Black community since George Washington Carver and Marcus Garvey, the "lifting up by one's labor's to earn respect and our place" vs. "The need for the Government (i.e. whites) to recognize the unfairness and repression of blacks and address it."

As with most debates, both sides have their points and Cosby makes strong ones--albeit the chances that young blacks are squandering are mostly available due to Civil Rights legislation and protests against racist state and local laws on education.

It will be interesting to see the reaction. My guess that it will be paritisan (not that you, crimrearch, would ever have a particular view to present ) and in the end little will change.

Which is probably a pity.....

 

[zenith-nadir]

I lothe Bill Cosby but I agree with his statements regarding language. In a previous thread I spoke about a debate I had with a guy at work about the value, or detriment, of the use of ebonics. I felt it was a detriment, anyhow...The other day I was at the supermarket and two gangbangers were asking the cashier if they had any summer jobs, they were dressed in the obligatory Nikes, saggy jeans, Chicago Bulls muscle shirts and head wraps. Of course the casheir said no. So Bill Cosby, for all his foilbles, is correct.

 

[American]

Hey. Theo is trying his best. Not his fault if Rudy lost his notes right before a big exam.

 

[Tmy]

I think he has valid points. The story i read talked about the multiple applause that he recieved fromthe audience.

At the same time hes not suggesting anything concrete. Just a bunch of generalizations. What he should do is name names, or suggest things that people can do to help.

Sure people are gonna be upset. No one likes to be lectured by old rich guys on how they should live their lives.


As for: "Given how this forum showed it's disinterest in anything that might actually help the black community the last time Bill Cosby spoke, it will be interesting to see how quickly this one drops."


In this forum I'd say 90% of the theads about blacks are usually inspired by passive aggressive racism. They have nothing to do about "helping".

 

[Skeptic]

At the same time hes not suggesting anything concrete. Just a bunch of generalizations.

Yes... but that was true for MLK's "I have a dream" speech, too.

Cosby quite rightly figured out, I think, that racism is influenced by how black people act, but differently than how one would suppose.

The point is, that when there is an IDENTIFIABLY SUBGROUP of blacks that gets a lot of attention, then people often stereotype all blacks by their attitude to that group.

This can be positive: when MLK and his people started to speak for blacks, they weren't typical blacks; most blacks of course were not nearly as articulate or brave as they were (of course, most PEOPLE weren't nearly as articulate or brave as they were).

MLK lowered racism almost as much by the mere fact that he showed that such black people as he exist--and therefore blacks are not constitutionally inferior--as by his actual arguments. White men making the exact same argument as MLK, or even better ones, were not nearly as effective in stopping the "but they're inferior" stereotype, as history shows.

The problem is that it can be negative: most blacks, of course, are not trash-talkin' "ni--er"-sayin' homeboys. But when THAT GROUP GETS ALL THE ATTENTION, all blacks are feathered with that brush.

 

[Tmy]

I agree wh ya Skep.

I just think if he really wants to get thing out into the open he should take aim at people and companies who help promote distructive attitude.

For example rapper 50 cent and whatever record lable hes on. Heres a guy who was specifically marketed based on how he was a gang banger and hed been shot 9x or sumthin. Now hes a hero. While say a Bill Orielly will complian about his lyrics you dont see people go further and target the big recrd compainies who market the guy. (Except when we had the whole "Cop Killer" and "F da police" stuff back in th 90's)

 

[hgc]

...
At the same time hes not suggesting anything concrete. Just a bunch of generalizations. What he should do is name names, or suggest things that people can do to help.
...

I think his point is quite concrete:

1. Parents are responsible for instilling in their children an appreciation of the value of education. Set a better example than you are doing now.

2. The use of proper language is essential to good employment opporunities and economic success. Set a better example...

3. Domestic violence is a cop-out.

But this is an enormous challenge. How do people recognize in themselves behavior and characteristics that would not serve their children well? People who are undereducated and speak Ebonics (or any other form of sub-standard English, e.g., Redneck) are not well equipped to set their children on a different path. This is part of the reason that the children of immigrants are often more successful. Their parents often don't even speak English (or at least don't speak it at home), and they have a fresh start.

 

[corplinx]

Cosby is trying a different approach to the problem. In the past, the worst parts of the black culture have been rationalized or excused in the name of tolerance and in fear of lower the self esteem of already somewhat disenfranchised poor blacks.

Cosby's approach is _shame_. Its a powerful tool when used correctly. He doesn't make excuses, rationalize, or legitimize and its really a breath of fresh air.

 

[Tmy]

I think his point is quite concrete:

1. Parents are responsible for instilling in their children an appreciation of the value of education. Set a better example than you are doing now.

2. The use of proper language is essential to good employment opporunities and economic success. Set a better example...

3. Domestic violence is a cop-out.

.

Yeah but thats boring. If he wants to keep the issue in the pubic eye he needs to pick fights wh people. The press love that stuff.

 

[Kodiak]

Cosby is awesome and I agree with what he has to say about responsibility and how individual perception can affect how people are viewed and treated.

The Cos' is the single most talented non-cursing comedian of all time, IMO... (Pryor and Hacket would tie for the win in the cursing category...)

 

[DavidJames]

Cosby is awesome and I agree with what he has to say about responsibility and how individual perception can affect how people are viewed and treated.

The Cos' is the single most talented non-cursing comedian of all time, IMO... (Pryor and Hacket would tie for the win in the cursing category...)

I agree completely and couldn't have said it better. I will leave now, before I say something nice about the Red Wings

 

[Kodiak]

I agree completely and couldn't have said it better. I will leave now, before I say something nice about the Red Wings

I rivalry hasn't been the same since Claude Lemeiux and Patrick Roy left the 'Lanche...

 

[TragicMonkey]

I never thought Bill Cosby was particularly funny until now, when he's gotten so crabby.

The subculture he denigrates isn't entirely bad. The language is undeniably expressive, and the clothing looks comfortable.

I don't think the culture is to blame. The problem is that people are encouraged to "be themselves" all the time. I'm certainly not the same guy at work as I am with my friends, and definitely not the same when my parents are around. Everything from dress to manner of speech (and the things I'm actually saying) will be different depending on context.

In the real world, most people have to put on their professional persona at work in order to make things run smoothly. I don't wear my leather pants to work, my supervisor doesn't preach about how the theory of evolution is satanic in origin, and the secretary refrains from using her own peculiar dialect which is comprised of "like, you know, whatever".

The rap-culture fans Cosby objects to just need to learn to put on the bland, inoffensive persona that everyone needs to put on to achieve common ground. They can express themselves outside of work. I know a very smart young man who will have great difficulty landing a job in his field (IT) because his speech and appearance are more in keeping with landing a record deal with the Death Row label than getting a position in network security. If he'd take out the facial piercings, speak standard English, and perhaps put a bandage over his facial tattoo he could be seen as a professional.

People just need to learn that they can't always roll up all in here while keeping it real, because they aren't all that. A certain degree of frontin' is necessary in life.

 

[LostAngeles]

I'm very happy to see Cosby hasn't faded into the background after his previous remarks and doubly happy to see he hasn't reneged on them either.

Sadly, I'm sure there's some dumbass kid out there, "Hu-Wha? What dat foo' n--- be saying about us, j0?"

 

[Grammatron]

I'm very happy to see Cosby hasn't faded into the background after his previous remarks and doubly happy to see he hasn't reneged on them either.

Sadly, I'm sure there's some dumbass kid out there, "Hu-Wha? What dat foo' n--- be saying about us, j0?"

I think living so close to Scientology center has affected your ability to speak...oh wait, were you trying to write in slang?

 

[American]

HEY BILL!

 

[Aoidoi]

I lothe Bill Cosby but I agree with his statements regarding language.

How can you loathe Cosby? At worst he's innoffensive, at best he's done some of the finest standup I've ever heard (His Noah bit ranks among the funniest things I've ever heard).

I saw him live, and while I think he's lost something over the years, it's was decent and entertaining routine.

Sorry, just find it weird that you'd express such strong feelings about a guy who simply never seemed that potential offensive to me.

Some interesting comments from him, but he's always objected to profanity, so I think it's all in keeping with his beliefs.