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Cloning the Neanderthal?

Dustin Kesselberg

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I was wondering why exactly we don't attempt to clone the Neanderthal. We have DNA samples and we likely have the ability to clone them. So why not?

It would be a great chance to study one of our relatives/ancestors close up in person. A chance to see exactly how intelligent Neanderthals were and to learn more about their psychology.


What would be the problems with cloning Neanderthals? Aside from technical problems that might arise.

Would a human surrogate mother work?
 
Dustin said:
I was wondering why exactly we don't attempt to clone the Neanderthal. We have DNA samples and we likely have the ability to clone them. So why not?
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Can you source your statement that we have Neanderthal DNA? I had not heard such a thing.

I don't see why a human mother couldn't carry the freaky cloned extinct guy. Just like horses can carry zebras. Neandethals were human. They just weren't ... us.

Also, if that works, we have to clone a T Rex and make them fight.
 
Actually, the current issue of Discover Magazine (Sept, 2006), has an article on this subject.

Entitled "Will we ever clone a caveman?", it mentions that a year ago, paleogeneticist Svante Paabo at the Max Planck Institute in Germany announced he was going to reconstruct the Neanderthal genome.

Paabo recently declared that in addition to the large amounts of mitochondrial DNA, he has found nuclear DNA in a 45,000 Croatian Neanderthal museum specimen, and has sequenced a million base pairs of it. Paabo now estimates that he will have a complete draft of the Neanderthal genome within two years.

Paabo estimates that based on the reconstructed genetic sequence, Neanderthals and humans last shared a common ancestor 500,000 years ago -- a good 300,000 years before Homo Sapiens had even evolved.

"It also brings up the inevitable question: Could we clone a caveman? ", says the article.

Full article in the magazine.
 
Dustin said:
We have DNA samples and we likely have the ability to clone them. So why not?
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We do have partial DNA samples but heavily contaminated. Apparently only about 5% of that dna is neanderthal, the rest is contamination. It will take about two years, to have the dna sorted and completed.
 
Personally, I think that the justification of cloning a caveman (not the ability) should be under question...

I mean, should we clone a mentally deficient person, and let them go through life with a severe mental handicap, never to be able to fully function in a society, and feeling ostracized their entire life? That could very be like bringing back a Neanderthal...
 
Well the question still stands. Who thinks it's possible?


Also what do you all think the Psychology of the Neanderthal would be like? The Cranial capacity of the neanderthal is HIGHER than that of Modern humans. Would this imply it's intelligence would also be higher?

Could a cloned neanderthal adapt to modern human environment and live in modern society as a modern human would?
 
Lonewulf said:
Personally, I think that the justification of cloning a caveman (not the ability) should be under question...

I mean, should we clone a mentally deficient person, and let them go through life with a severe mental handicap, never to be able to fully function in a society, and feeling ostracized their entire life? That could very be like bringing back a Neanderthal...
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That compairson is nonsense. Neanderthals aren't mentally handicaped beings. They were an entirely different species.

Even if they are less intelligent than modern humans. How is that a bad thing? All other species on earth are less intelligent than modern humans yet don't have problems living..Even in captivity. How would a neanderthal? We are able to have gorillas and chimps in captivity. Why not a neanderthal?

This is all assuming a Neanderthal couldn't adapt to Modern human society. Which there is a chance it could.


Which is why we should clone it and find out.
 
Lonewulf said:
Personally, I think that the justification of cloning a caveman (not the ability) should be under question...

I mean, should we clone a mentally deficient person, and let them go through life with a severe mental handicap, never to be able to fully function in a society, and feeling ostracized their entire life? That could very be like bringing back a Neanderthal...
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I don't know that I'd Neanderthals mentally deficient. We can be pretty sure that their intelligence was in some ways different from ours (were they capable of complex language, for instance? we don't know as far as I'm aware).

I'd love to see a Neanderthal cloned. I think it could be done humanely. Someone could be found to raise it and treat it with kindness certainly.

Alas, I doubt we have the ability to do so, or will for a long time, if ever. But if we could we'd learn a lot - not just about them, but about ourselves.
 
I think given our current technological progress we would be able to clone a Neanderthal(Or human) within 15-20 years.


And I agree with Robo.
 
Dustin said:
That compairson is nonsense. Neanderthals aren't mentally handicaped beings. They were an entirely different species.
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Compared to us, they could very well be mentally handicapped beings. If they aren't capable of complex language, then any interactions with us would be difficult. And in spite of them being an entirely different species, they could very easily find life difficult, confusing, and potentially hazardous.

I definitely think that rushing into cloning one would be a bad idea. But regardless, I'm sure that it would be illegal in the U.S., after all... where it's outlawed to clone humans (if I'm not mistaken). I'm pretty sure a Neanderthal should fall closely enough.

Even if they are less intelligent than modern humans. How is that a bad thing? All other species on earth are less intelligent than modern humans yet don't have problems living..Even in captivity. How would a neanderthal? We are able to have gorillas and chimps in captivity. Why not a neanderthal?
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Alright... so would the Neanderthal be raised in captivity, or let free to try to survive in the corporate business world?

This is all assuming a Neanderthal couldn't adapt to Modern human society. Which there is a chance it could.
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And there might be a chance it couldn't.

Which is why we should clone it and find out.
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Well, I don't agree, but if you want to push for it, go ahead.

I could see some potential advantages to cloning a Neanderthal, but not a whole lot. We could see potential intellectual capacity, as well as how they would interact with us, but it wouldn't tell us how they would act inside of their own previous cultures, just how they would act within our own.

Then there's always a chance of something happening based on the surrogate mother (after all, a liger is sterile and not a tiger nor a lion), to the Neanderthal and to the mother. I don't think that modern medicinal practices would allow for something so experimental in the U.S., at the least.

But hey, maybe I'm just a moron.
 
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On Penn Jillettes' radio, his take on it was that it would be pretty cool to clone a Neanderthal and let it age. Sit it down and explain to him how his species has died off, and that he's the last of his kind. Show him what our species has done in just a few thousand years and let him be overwhelmed by the magnatitude of his situation.

Then as soon as he understands fully what has happned, shoot him.

I have no idea why I find this idea so damn wonderful. I am a sick, sick, man.
 
Lonewulf said:
I mean, should we clone a mentally deficient person, and let them go through life with a severe mental handicap, never to be able to fully function in a society, and feeling ostracized their entire life? That could very be like bringing back a Neanderthal...
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I don't think there is any evidence besides racism that Neanderthals were mentally deficient. They certainly lacked creativity and artistry, but they also survived three ice ages. Moreover, evidence indicates that, when exposed to h. sapiens, they learned and adopted much of our art - they began decorating their tools and wearing jewelry.

Lonewulf said:
And in spite of them being an entirely different species, they could very easily find life difficult, confusing, and potentially hazardous.
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You do realize that we'd be raising the Neanderthal now and not actually going back in time and grabbing one from his tribe, right?

But cloning a Neanderthal really won't tell us much of anything. It won't tell us how they lived because he would be living among us. It won't tell us how they thought because he would learn thinking from us. It won't even tell us what they looked like because his diet would be much healthier than the Neanderthal diet. It won't answer the question of why they died out.

Not only that, but whatever useless data we did get would be made doubly useless by the fact that we'd only cloned one guy. He might have been the worst Neanderthal ever. We know at least that he was too stupid to outrun glaciation. And that's pretty stupid.
 
Loss Leader said:
I don't think there is any evidence besides racism that Neanderthals were mentally deficient. They certainly lacked creativity and artistry, but they also survived three ice ages. Moreover, evidence indicates that, when exposed to h. sapiens, they learned and adopted much of our art - they began decorating their tools and wearing jewelry.
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Ah. Good point.

You do realize that we'd be raising the Neanderthal now and not actually going back in time and grabbing one from his tribe, right?
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Yes, I do. Good point.

But cloning a Neanderthal really won't tell us much of anything. It won't tell us how they lived because he would be living among us. It won't tell us how they thought because he would learn thinking from us. It won't even tell us what they looked like because his diet would be much healthier than the Neanderthal diet. It won't answer the question of why they died out.
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Well, that was pretty much one of my points.

Not only that, but whatever useless data we did get would be made doubly useless by the fact that we'd only cloned one guy. He might have been the worst Neanderthal ever. We know at least that he was too stupid to outrun glaciation. And that's pretty stupid.
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Not to mention whether or not there were any actual effects from being born to a different species. I would think that there would be some possibility of genetic malignment... just like with ligers and mules, the offspring are not the same as the parents.
 
Dustin said:
I think given our current technological progress we would be able to clone a Neanderthal(Or human) within 15-20 years.


And I agree with Robo.
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Well, if one were to clone a Neanderthal, then the fetus would most likely gestate in the womb of a modern human female being the nearest thing to an Neanderthal.

However, before anything like this could be done, the cloning would involve a great deal of testing and the establishment of medical procedures that would at least start with the cloning of a modern human in the womb of a modern human female.

No then, just about everybody and their brother has decided not to get involved with human cloning, therefore I think that Neanderthal cloning is quite a long, long, long way off to say nothing of the enormous technical challenges involved.
 
To MY knowledge, 'We' didn't come from Neanderthals... Neanderthals died out, and the research I have been exposed to suggested there was no Neanderthal DNA within the Cro-Magnon genes.

Please correct me if I am wrong?
 
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