Cindy's own words

[billydkid]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/sheehan/sheehan14.html

Noone is putting words in Cindy's mouth.

Incidentally and in as much as I didn't have a chance to respond to another post critical of one of mine, to compare our occupation of post WWII Europe and Japan with our attack, invasion and occupation of Iraq is ridiculous. Also, that whole deal referring to protesters who spit on Vietnam veterans is a cheap shot and completely ignors the many decent people who protested the war and never did any such thing (including many veterans themselves) and who's interest was in preventing any further pointless death in that futile conflict. Again, also, it what way does it make America safer and more secure to have 120,000 of our troops in Iraq dodging roadside bombs and RPG's?

Assuming Saddam could have presented any kind of a genuine threat to us sometime in the future - we could have easily continued to contain any provocative activity on his part with a few fighter jets just like we have for the past 10 years. Also, the argument that we are there to free the Iraqi people rings pretty hollow when you consider that most of the people making such claims would be the last to support sending our troops on genuine humanitarian missions - stopping genocides and ethnic cleansing and the like. It is funny how the chicken hawk war advocates promoting this war suddenly become great humanitarians when it serves their purposes in justifying this war. There was more, but I can't remember it now. I will go check the other thread.

 

[Jocko]

Yeah, whatever. She's all too generous with her "own words."

Because every death is now a meaningless one. And the vast majority of our country knows this.

I believe she is very much mistaken on both counts. She is a robotic demogogue, nothing more, at least as bad as the man she is criticizing. The only difference is, Bush was actually elected, whereas Sheehan's a media creation designed to tide us over until the next season of American Idol.

I would be very cautious about hanging my credibility on either her or your obsession with Rockwell. Both are complete flakes.

 

[Manny]

Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Mark Knoller, CBS News: You know that the president says Iraq is the central front in the war on terrorism. Don't you believe that?

Sheehan: No, because it's not true. You know Iraq was no threat to the United States of America until we invaded. I mean they're not even a threat to the United States of America. Iraq was not involved in 9/11, Iraq was not a terrorist state. But now that we have decimated the country, the borders are open, freedom fighters from other countries are going in, and they have created more terrorism by going to an Islamic country, devastating the country, and killing innocent people in that country. The terrorism is growing and people who never thought of being car bombers or suicide bombers are now doing it because they want the United States of America out of their country. (cite: beginning at 5:36 of this big honkin' .mov file)

Yeah, OK. Terrorism is growing in Iraq, but it's not the central front in the war on terrorism. I guess one would believe that if one were predisposed to describe the people committing the terrorism as "freedom fighters."

quote:

---

Originally posted by more wit and wisdom from Cindi Sheehan
(convicted terrorist) Lynne (Stewart) is my human Atticus Finch. He did what he knew was right, but wasn’t popular. And that’s what Lynne is doing. (cite)

---

Did anyone get back to me about how I'm supposed to feel about someone who lionizes actual convicted terrorists who personally advocate my death?

 

[billydkid]

Yeah, whatever. She's all too generous with her "own words."



I believe she is very much mistaken on both counts. She is a robotic demogogue, nothing more, at least as bad as the man she is criticizing. The only difference is, Bush was actually elected, whereas Sheehan's a media creation designed to tide us over until the next season of American Idol.

I would be very cautious about hanging my credibility on either her or your obsession with Rockwell. Both are complete flakes.

Oh wow, thanks for the warning. Let's see, Both Lew and Cindy are anti-war and want people not to die pointlessly. George Bush thinks God appointed him to lead the world into a new age and is willing to sacrifice our sons and daughters for that purpose. Nah, I'm thinking I'll stick with Cindy and Lew. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[billydkid]

Oh wow, thanks for the warning. Let's see, Both Lew and Cindy are anti-war and want people not to die pointlessly. George Bush thinks God appointed him to lead the world into a new age and is willing to sacrifice our sons and daughters for that purpose. Nah, I'm thinking I'll stick with Cindy and Lew. Thanks for the advice though.

Stephen Mansfield, author of The Faith of George W. Bush, goes on to say: "Not long after, Bush called James Robison (a prominent minister) and told him, 'I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for President.' "

 

[Mark]

Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Yeah, OK. Terrorism is growing in Iraq, but it's not the central front in the war on terrorism. I guess one would believe that if one were predisposed to describe the people committing the terrorism as "freedom fighters."

Let me get this straight. Our invasion of Iraq caused the terrorists to flow into Iraq, and now it is the "central front?"

Well, hell, let's invade Canada and bring the terrorists there! At least we'll save on fuel costs...

 

[Grammatron]

Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Let me get this straight. Our invasion of Iraq caused the terrorists to flow into Iraq, and now it is the "central front?"

Well, hell, let's invade Canada and bring the terrorists there! At least we'll save on fuel costs...

At least you don't call them "freedom fighters"

 

[Jocko]

Re: Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

At least you don't call them "freedom fighters"

It amazes me the way some people can willfully turn a blind eye to that. Politics aside, a devotion to the cause that killed the very son you're supposed to be mourning (I mean actually, personally killed, not the circumstances that landed him in the military) is a sign of mental instability.

Edited to remove an unnecessarily venomous comment.

 

[tofu]

Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Let me get this straight. Our invasion of Iraq caused the terrorists to flow into Iraq, and now it is the "central front?"

Let me get this straight. Putting this mouse trap in my bathroom caused mice to come from other parts of my house, and now I have mice in the bathroom? omg! wtf? lol!!!111

It doesn't matter where you get the mice, but you really do need to get them.

 

[Ziggurat]

Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Did anyone get back to me about how I'm supposed to feel about someone who lionizes actual convicted terrorists who personally advocate my death?

I notice no one has. Here's some more info on that appearance Sheehan made with Stewart:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17915

Note, in particular, the flier about halfway down the page which asked whether or not attendees should support the Iraqi "resistance". In other words, Sheehan was speaking at an event where people were advocating supporting the very terrorists who killed her son, and she apparently never voiced any objections to that. There is no logical cohesion to her actions beyond an unflinching opposition to Bush, because she sure as hell isn't doing everything she can to prevent other US soldiers from getting killed.

So I'm with you: why should anyone care about Sheehan's political opinions? Her tragic loss has not given her unique insight.

Some more thoughts on Sheehan, from an Iraqi:
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/08/message-to-cindy-sheehan.html

"Ma'am, we asked for your nation's help and we asked you to stand with us in our war and your nation's act was (and still is) an act of ultimate courage and unmatched sense of humanity.
Our request is justified, death was our daily bread and a million Iraqi mothers were expecting death to knock on their doors at any second to claim someone from their families.
Your face doesn't look strange to me at all; I see it everyday on endless numbers of Iraqi women who were struck by losses like yours."

"You are free to go and leave us alone but what am I going to tell your million sisters in Iraq? Should I ask them to leave Iraq too? Should I leave too? And what about the eight millions who walked through bombs to practice their freedom and vote? Should they leave this land too?
Is it a cursed land that no one should live in? Why is it that we were chosen to live in all this pain, why me, why my people, why you?

But I am not leaving this land because the bad guys are not going to leave us or you to live in peace. They are the same ones who flew the planes to kill your people in New York.
I ask you in the name of God or whatever you believe in; do not waste your son's blood.
We here have decided to avenge humanity, you and all the women who lost their loved ones."

 

[tofu]

Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Well, hell, let's invade Canada and bring the terrorists there! At least we'll save on fuel costs...

Oh and by the way, if there was a terrorist cell in Canada, we wouldn't need to invade. All we'd have to do is make a phone call to let the Canadians know about it. They'd take care of it themselves.

 

[Mycroft]

Cindy Sheehan's own words, a year ago after her first meeting with Bush

Source

From our archive: Bush, Sheehans share moments
By David Henson/Staff Writer

Since learning in April that their son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, had been killed in Iraq, life has been everything but normal for the Sheehan family of Vacaville.

Casey's parents, Cindy and Patrick, as well as their three children, have attended event after event honoring the soldier both locally and abroad, received countless letters of support and fielded questions from reporters across the country.

"That's the way our whole lives have been since April 4," Patrick said. "It's been surreal."

But none of that prepared the family for the message left on their answering machine last week, inviting them to have a face-to-face meeting with President George W. Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle.

Surreal soon seemed like an understatement, as the Sheehans - one of 17 families who met Thursday with Bush - were whisked in a matter of days to the Army post and given the VIP treatment from the military. But as their meeting with the president approached, the family was faced with a dilemma as to what to say when faced with Casey's commander-in-chief.

"We haven't been happy with the way the war has been handled," Cindy said. "The president has changed his reasons for being over there every time a reason is proven false or an objective reached."

The 10 minutes of face time with the president could have given the family a chance to vent their frustrations or ask Bush some of the difficult questions they have been asking themselves, such as whether Casey's sacrifice would make the world a safer place.

But in the end, the family decided against such talk, deferring to how they believed Casey would have wanted them to act. In addition, Pat noted that Bush wasn't stumping for votes or trying to gain a political edge for the upcoming election.

"We have a lot of respect for the office of the president, and I have a new respect for him because he was sincere and he didn't have to take the time to meet with us," Pat said.

Sincerity was something Cindy had hoped to find in the meeting. Shortly after Casey died, Bush sent the family a form letter expressing his condolences, and Cindy said she felt it was an impersonal gesture.

"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith."

The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip. The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support.

For some, grief was still visceral and raw, while for others it had melted into the background of their lives, the pain as common as breathing. Cindy said she saw her reflection in the troubled eyes of each.

"It's hard to lose a son," she said. "But we (all) lost a son in the Iraqi war."

The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

It's still not a glowing endorsement of Bush, but it's not the vitriolic condemnation she later puts forth either. In addition her husband Patrick says, "We have a lot of respect for the office of the president, and I have a new respect for him because he was sincere and he didn't have to take the time to meet with us."

In the end, focussing on Cindy Sheehand is not skeptical. Her only purpose is character assassination, and she offers nothing to the debate that is not purely emotive.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Let me get this straight. Our invasion of Iraq caused the terrorists to flow into Iraq, and now it is the "central front?"

Well, hell, let's invade Canada and bring the terrorists there! At least we'll save on fuel costs...

People who use the "Iraq is the central front in the WOT' argument are better off hanging a sign that says "I'm a Useful Idiot" around their necks. They're merely regurgitating the BS reason Bush is trying to use to make himself look less moronic now that his stated policy is a mess. I thought we were trying to bring freedom to Iraq while getting rid of Saddam's WMD's? Since that is a disaster, we're now trying to turn Iraq into a war zone. Yeah right, let me defecate on your face and then call it "art".

 

[Mark]

Re: Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Let me get this straight. Putting this mouse trap in my bathroom caused mice to come from other parts of my house, and now I have mice in the bathroom? omg! wtf? lol!!!111

It doesn't matter where you get the mice, but you really do need to get them.

Do I even need to say this? The mouse trap is not actively recruiting mice to join the fight. Our misguided war in Iraq most certainly is.

 

[tofu]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Do I even need to say this? The mouse trap is not actively recruiting mice to join the fight. Our misguided war in Iraq most certainly is.

Yes. You do need to say it. See, this last post is different from what you originally said. What you said was, "omfg bad people are coming to Iraq!" To which I respond, "good! There are Americans in Iraq with tanks and machine guns. If they want to shoot at infidels, I'd rather have them shooting at the infidels with M-16s than at the infidels with lunchboxes and laptops."

That was your original point and that was my response to it.

Now you expand your argument (a common tactic) to include, "omfg! There are more people who hate us now!!!!" See, that's a different point that the one that you originally made. So yes, you do need to say it.

Are you ready for my response to this new point that you have raised? Are you sitting down? Have you removed all the pointy objects that might be close by and with which you might injure yourself or others? My response is, I don't give a g*d d*mn if they hate us "more" now than four years ago.

Four years ago they were willing to pull 9-11. For many years they've been trying to get nukes. There's nothing more that they can do with their hatred. That's it. That's pretty much the limit. You're argument, "omfg! Now they really hate us!!" is like if my neighbor shoots at me, I cower in my house thinking, "oh I'd better not call the police, then he'll really be mad." I don't think that way. My thinking is, if my neighbor hates me that much, screw him I'm calling the police and having his ass taken to jail!

 

[Mark]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Yes. You do need to say it. See, this last post is different from what you originally said. What you said was, "omfg bad people are coming to Iraq!" To which I respond, "good! There are Americans in Iraq with tanks and machine guns. If they want to shoot at infidels, I'd rather have them shooting at the infidels with M-16s than at the infidels with lunchboxes and laptops."

That was your original point and that was my response to it.

Now you expand your argument (a common tactic) to include, "omfg! There are more people who hate us now!!!!" See, that's a different point that the one that you originally made. So yes, you do need to say it.

Are you ready for my response to this new point that you have raised? Are you sitting down? Have you removed all the pointy objects that might be close by and with which you might injure yourself or others? My response is, I don't give a g*d d*mn if they hate us "more" now than four years ago.

Four years ago they were willing to pull 9-11. For many years they've been trying to get nukes. There's nothing more that they can do with their hatred. That's it. That's pretty much the limit. You're argument, "omfg! Now they really hate us!!" is like if my neighbor shoots at me, I cower in my house thinking, "oh I'd better not call the police, then he'll really be mad." I don't think that way. My thinking is, if my neighbor hates me that much, screw him I'm calling the police and having his ass taken to jail!

Don't put words in my mouth; it's boring.

 

[Dan Beaird]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

...Four years ago they were willing to pull 9-11. For many years they've been trying to get nukes. There's nothing more that they can do with their hatred. That's it. That's pretty much the limit. You're argument, "omfg! Now they really hate us!!" is like if my neighbor shoots at me, I cower in my house thinking, "oh I'd better not call the police, then he'll really be mad." I don't think that way. My thinking is, if my neighbor hates me that much, screw him I'm calling the police and having his ass taken to jail!

Kind of draws a nice parallell to battered wife syndrome doesn't it? Maybe that's it. Maybe people like Mark want to be loved so much that they are willing to take the beatings in the hopes that it will prove how much we really care. BWS is sometimes linked to abuse in the childhood home, there might be some government grant money in this...first one with a thesis published is a millionaire!

 

[Mark]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Kind of draws a nice parallell to battered wife syndrome doesn't it? Maybe that's it. Maybe people like Mark want to be loved so much that they are willing to take the beatings in the hopes that it will prove how much we really care. BWS is sometimes linked to abuse in the childhood home, there might be some government grant money in this...first one with a thesis published is a millionaire!

You don't know me, and your personal attack was stupid and ignorant.

 

[Manny]

(oops. The post here was supposed to go in another thread. Sorry about that.)

 

[tofu]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cindi's own words? You want Cindi's own words?

Don't put words in my mouth; it's boring.

I hope this doesn't come as a shock to you: this is how people communicate. We aren't computers. When you say something, it doesn't go into the listeners' memory word for word. It goes in paraphrased.

I made a good-faith effort to accurately represent the way that I interpreted what you said. Your exact words were, "Our invasion of Iraq caused the terrorists to flow into Iraq" and I paraphrased that as, "bad people are coming to Iraq." I don't believe that I misrepresented you.

It's cool though if you don't want to respond. Having an open mind and considering the possibility that your views might be askew is probably boring too.