"Cheating" for Hillary in NY Primary?

BenBurch

Gatekeeper of The Left
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/nyregion/16vote.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

<SNIP>
Black voters are heavily represented in the 94th Election District in Harlem’s 70th Assembly District. Yet according to the unofficial results from the New York Democratic primary last week, not a single vote in the district was cast for Senator Barack Obama.
<SNIP>

And that district is not alone.

I think we can say without fear of being called CTers that there was some significant and systematic problem with the voting machines, intentional or not.

Let us ban these mother-loving things and go back to punch cards? Those are NOT a problem if you clean out the chip bin under them every election. The problem in Florida was that the bins had not been cleared in years, and there were SO many votes for Al Gore in some areas that the pins could no longer push through the card into the jammed-full chip bin. We never had a real problem with them in Illinois.

Failing that a paper ballot marked with [X] would be very acceptable, and CHEAP. We can deal with having our results in a few days if they are actually ACCURATE.
 
Failing that a paper ballot marked with [X] would be very acceptable, and CHEAP. We can deal with having our results in a few days if they are actually ACCURATE.

Works for us up here.

TAM:)
 
kos said:
There were also some districts in which Clinton received zero votes. It's being currently chalked up to human error. And really, if you want to be devious and steal some precincts, you don't do it by sticking a "0" in one of the candidate's columns. That's a tad bit obvious. And the problems are being caught and corrected, so no need to hyperventilate.

Seems to be a case of human error and it's being (slowly) corrected.
 
I would believe it because as the new papers reported and people on youtube ranted, Ron Paul wasnt even on the ballots at some NY locations and the people who wanted to vote for him were told by people over see'ing the elections that "Ron Paul had dropped out of the race".

Yet nothing in this race would make you think they are out to get the man....
 
Seems to be a case of human error and it's being (slowly) corrected.

How many cases of human error can occur before we start to think things are purposely being mishandled without being called woo'ers?

I need a number so that when it reaches that mark i can finally come out screaming *FRAUD* without being looked at as a nutjob!!!
 
I would believe it because as the new papers reported and people on youtube ranted, Ron Paul wasnt even on the ballots at some NY locations and the people who wanted to vote for him were told by people over see'ing the elections that "Ron Paul had dropped out of the race".
I knew it! I knew there had to be some reason he was losing!
 
I knew it! I knew there had to be some reason he was losing!

Can i get a number please?

Also, of course he will lose if no one knows who he is. Just how the world works!
Its his own fault for campaigning poorly as well as the fag medias for blocking him from almost anything they could.

Do you deny he was left out more often then not?

As soon as Romney dropped out papers reported the race as down to 2.
Fair?
States he did decent in the primaries they wouldnt report him on the standings?
Such as when he placed second to Romney and they reported Romeny having 21%, Mccain have 14% and Huckabee having 9%.
Fair?
Not being on the ballot and officials constantly telling voters he dropped out the race. This happened alot if you research it all over the nation. I only got to find out about it because it happened in Brooklyn not to far from me.
Fair?

I could name instance after instance but it would be meaningless.
The media blacked him out alot. Is it the reason he lost? No, but it sure as hell wasnt fair and didnt help his campaign at all!!!

Did the media really help Mccain out?
Oh, hell yeah it did!!!
 
Also, of course he will lose if no one knows who he is.
In strict logic, that statement is true. However, it is also true to say that of course he would lose if everyone knew who he was and he could make it rain beer.

When I pause to contemplate a hypothetical circumstance under which he might win, the most plausible thing that comes to mind is some sort of flesh-eating virus to which Libertarians have congenital immunity.
 
In strict logic, that statement is true. However, it is also true to say that of course he would lose if everyone knew who he was and he could make it rain beer.
hmm, whit kind of beer?

When I pause to contemplate a hypothetical circumstance under which he might win, the most plausible thing that comes to mind is some sort of flesh-eating virus to which Libertarians have congenital immunity.
He's not all that popular in Libertarian circles either, as many Libertarians feel that his wacky polices, aside from being distinctly non libertarian, brink libertarianism into disrepute.
I don't think I need to add anything to that ;)
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/nyregion/16vote.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

And that district is not alone.

I think we can say without fear of being called CTers that there was some significant and systematic problem with the voting machines, intentional or not.

Well, yes, you can say that if you didn't read the article you linked to, which makes it clear that it was human error, not machine error:

“It looked like a lot of the numbers were wrong, probably the result of human error,” said Marcus Cederqvist, who was named executive director of the Board of Elections last month. He said such discrepancies between the unofficial and final count rarely affected the raw vote outcome because “they’re not usually that big.”
 
Can i get a number please?

Also, of course he will lose if no one knows who he is. Just how the world works!
Its his own fault for campaigning poorly as well as the fag medias for blocking him from almost anything they could.

...fag medias? Mind expanding on this?

Do you deny he was left out more often then not?

As soon as Romney dropped out papers reported the race as down to 2.
Fair?
States he did decent in the primaries they wouldnt report him on the standings?
Such as when he placed second to Romney and they reported Romeny having 21%, Mccain have 14% and Huckabee having 9%.
Fair?

Be... what? Ron Paul never polled that high, the highest he came to getting any real delegates besidest hat one state was Washington. Hint, he lost.

Not being on the ballot and officials constantly telling voters he dropped out the race. This happened alot if you research it all over the nation. I only got to find out about it because it happened in Brooklyn not to far from me.
Fair?

I could name instance after instance but it would be meaningless.
The media blacked him out alot. Is it the reason he lost? No, but it sure as hell wasnt fair and didnt help his campaign at all!!!

Did the media really help Mccain out?
Oh, hell yeah it did!!!

Not really. He was never a serious candidate and everyone except his followers REALIZED that.
 
Well, yes, you can say that if you didn't read the article you linked to, which makes it clear that it was human error, not machine error:

Exactly. And in the same link:

And election officials and lawyers for both Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton agree that it is not uncommon for mistakes to be made by weary inspectors rushing on election night to transcribe columns of numbers that are delivered first to the police and then to the news media.

New York City still uses mechanical lever machines.

I’m concerned about what type of voting machines NYS will eventually switch to, especially given all the voting integrity problems that have occurred with the ATM style voting machines. As a result one of the things I decided to do was work as a poll worker to see what really goes on, or at least to see what really goes on as much as I can as a poll worker. (FWIW, I have also participated in grass roots activities like petitioning and giving public testimony before the NYC BOE and some NYC Council committees).

At the close of the day, a poll worker will call out the total votes by candidates to another poll worker who jots them down on a “canvass sheet”. From what I’ve observed, most poll site workers are in a hurry to leave after their 16-hour day and that process is rushed and not usually reviewed. People seem to be concerned about giving each other space and there is usually no second pair of eyes at either the calling out or recording down part of the process. So I can see that it would be easy for a tired poll worker to jot down the figures in the wrong column.

While I’m very familiar with the controls in place at the poll site up to the point where the locked voting machines and sealed documents are transferred to the police, I’m not familiar with the procedures that the Board of Elections uses to review those documents and certify the count. But I can tell you that there is a strong paper trail in place and that at least the vote can be certified and the votes can be recounted if necc. With many of the ATM style machines, that is simply not possible and an audit can never be done. This is no doubt why some states have tossed their expensive ATM style voting machines out and have switched to the paper ballot optical scanning (PBOS) voting machines.

Mechanical lever machines, IMHO, have gotten a bad rap. If they are maintained they work very well. And unlike the other options, what you see is truly what you get. There is only one “register” for each candidate on the mechanical lever machines. Anyone can observe them. And in NYC primaries for local elections, I can tell you that they often do! At the close of the voting day, local politicians often send observers to read off the votes directly from the voting machines for themselves. (The mechancial lever machines have mechanical counters for each candidate, for the day's total votes and also for the "life-to-date" votes on the machine.) Super Tuesday was the first primary that I’ve seen where this wasn’t done at the poll site where I worked. But this was the only primary for a national election that I have worked, so perhaps that is typical for a national election in NYC.

ETA: I may have gotten a little off topic. But this is an issue I really care about.
 
Can i get a number please?

Also, of course he will lose if no one knows who he is. Just how the world works!
Its his own fault for campaigning poorly as well as the fag medias for blocking him from almost anything they could.
QUOTE]


It would really help the ignorant among us here if you could identify the fag part of the media. The primary tube on my gaydar burned out a while back and I can't afford a new primary or the really powerful digital gaydar systems that came out since so I would really appreciate your help!!!
Thanks and kissies!!!
 
I thought these links would be of interest. They basically discuss how the canvassing process works in NY State. Basically the current system with mechanical lever voting machines work. The machine has mechanical registers and an excellent paper trail. It is very easy for outsiders to observe and see what is going on. No voting system is corruption proof, but the current system in NYC (which uses mechanical lever voting machines) would require collusion by many people to steal votes and even then, because of the way the system is designed, it would be difficult to steal votes on a grand scale.

The switch to computerized systems in the USA was a major mistake. (AFAIK, NY is the only state that hasn’t switched yet, but it is scheduled to make the change soon.) You can’t observe the code in real time and you can’t be guaranteed how many registers the source code has. You can’t be guaranteed that the system purchased by the state (each state govt has this responsibility in the USA) is the one actually installed and running on election day. (This has been proven and you can find the information on many web sites concerned with election integrity.) You can’t even be sure that there isn’t a network card hidden in the machine changing the results. In computerized systems its much easier to steal votes and it is easier to do so on a larger scale with fewer, perhaps even with only just one person.

Mechanical lever machines are the best type of machines for the job. However, unfortunately, there simply appears to be no political will to keep them in this country. The best compromise available that does have a large grassroots effort behind it, is the PBOS machines. It is a computerized systems with many of the inherent weaknesses, but at least the paper trail, created by each voter, is of high quality and available for a vote recount if necc.

Here are 3 links:

1) State of New York 2004 Election Law (which apparently is the latest in effect) http://vote.nyc.ny.us/pdf/documents/nys/elaw2004.pdf (fyi – has index at the end)

See pages [ETA: page numbers listed are the Adobe document reader page numbers, not the actual document itself page number]:

Pg 289 Article 9 Canvass of Results
Title I At the Polling Place (Lists every section heading in Title I up front)

Pg 305 Title II Canvass by Board of Elections (Lists every section heading up front).

Pg. 308 Section 9-208 Provisions for recanvass of vote in every election district in the state; procedure in case of discrepancy

Highlights – the Board of Elections compare the results tabulated on the voting machines to the canvass sheet totals prepared by the poll inspectors from each election district. If it is clear that it is just a simple error such as a column transposition it's corrected. If it is more complicated than that, than the voting machine is open and every single ballot is recounted. Political parties and candidates can send representatives to observe the recanvassing process and also procedures taken in the event of a discrepancy. IMHO, there is no substitute for allowing many observers at every critical step of the process to help ensure election integrity. Voting systems built on mechanical lever systems with good paper trails allow for this. Computerized systems don't.

2) Poll Workers Manual (for Election Day Operations in NYC, issued by the BoE in NYC) http://vote.nyc.ny.us/pdf/documents/boe/pollworkers/pollworkersmanual.pdf

Much of the 2004 Election Law that pertains to poll workers is restated in the manual.

More links of interest can be found at:
3) Board of Elections if the City of New York http://vote.nyc.ny.us/
 
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So here is a count that is off, is in the process of being corrected, and the reports are of cheating? A bit of a premature conclusion would be an understatement. :rolleyes:

It appears the votes need recounting and the reason for the error looked for. So, that's what is being done.
 
So here is a count that is off, is in the process of being corrected, and the reports are of cheating? A bit of a premature conclusion would be an understatement. :rolleyes:

It appears the votes need recounting and the reason for the error looked for. So, that's what is being done.

Kindda' like the Rose law firm documents missing, just human error.

:covereyes
 

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