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Can you stop drinking?

nosho

Thinker
nosho
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
179
[soapbox]

Mel Gibson's case illustrates why the smartest choice is not to drink alcohol at all.

As a society, we have a drinking problem.

There's evidence that drinking alcohol is harmful to ourself and those around us.

Alcohol does something to your brain. People suffer tremendously as a direct consequence of drinking alcohol or being around people who drink alcohol. Every alcoholic starts with just one drink. Every drunken-driving death starts with just one drink.

Nobody sips that first drink thinking, "I'm going to ruin my life," or "I'm going to kill someone tonight." We all tend to think that just one drink is no big deal. But "just one drink" has a way of turning into another. And another.

OK, maybe you're strong enough and responsible enough to stop at just one drink. Maybe you've never, ever had too much to drink, or done something stupid or hurtful after drinking alcohol. You think you're a responsible drinker.

But the social reality in most cases is that when you drink, you encourage others to drink. When you drink, you teach your children to drink. When you drink, through your example you invite others to engage in an activity that, for some of them, will become harmful. Even deadly.

If you drink regularly in moderation, ask yourself, can you stop drinking for a month? If so, then do it, as an experiment. If you can't stop for a month, you have a problem. If you can stop for a month, why not do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop for another month? And then another?

Prohibition isn't the answer. Individual choice is. There's no such think as drinking responsibly.

[/soapbox]
 
I used to say, "there's no such thing as a responsible gun owner." Now, to be consistent, I have to let people be themselves and hope they choose. nosho's claim sounds similar.

I wonder nosho... did you have a drinking problem that you're recovering from? Why not give up soda pop for a year? I did. I still drink sodas now, if for no other reason than I like the taste...
 
nosho said:
[soapbox]
If you drink regularly in moderation, ask yourself, can you stop drinking for a month? If so, then do it, as an experiment. If you can't stop for a month, you have a problem. If you can stop for a month, why not do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop for another month? And then another?

Prohibition isn't the answer. Individual choice is. There's no such think as drinking responsibly.

[/soapbox]
Click to expand...

I stopped for 3 months once. I can go out without drinking, I can go out and drink. I can have fun when I don't drink, I can have fun when I do drink. I'll stop drinking half-way thorugh a night if you like. I'll stop drinking half-way through a pint if you like.

I think as a society, we have a problem with people who assume that everyone has the same troubles as them.
 
As Michael Jackson's case illustrates why the smartest choice is not to dance at all.

As a society, we have a dancing problem.

There's evidence that dancing is harmful to ourself and those around us.

Alcohol does something to your brain. People suffer tremendously as a direct consequence of dancing or being around people who dance. Every alcoholic starts with just one drink. Every drunken-driving death starts with just one drink.

Nobody dances that first night thinking, "I'm going to ruin my life," or "I'm going to kill someone tonight." We all tend to think that just one drink is no big deal. But "just one dance" has a way of turning into another. And another.

OK, maybe you're strong enough and responsible enough to stop at just one dance. Maybe you've never, ever had danced too much, or done something stupid or hurtful after dancing. You think you're a responsible dancer.

But the social reality in most cases is that when you dance, you encourage others to dance. When you dance, you teach your children to dance. When you dance, through your example you invite others to engage in an activity that, for some of them, will become harmful. Even deadly.

If you dance regularly in moderation, ask yourself, can you stop dancing for a month? If so, then do it, as an experiment. If you can't stop for a month, you have a problem. If you can stop for a month, why not do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop for another month? And then another?

Prohibition isn't the answer. Individual choice is. There's no such think as dancing responsibly.

[/soapbox]
 
I regularly give up drinking. When in university I drank almost every day, usually just a couple of social pints in the pub. When on holiday with a temp job I usually drank nothing for a couple of weeks because no-one was around to drink with. I know there are some people with problems, but I think most people are like me, they will drink socially as much as they like, but have no problem not drinking if there is no reason to.
 
I think Mel Gibson's case illustrates the danger of being an egotistical antisemitic man child rather than the inherent evils of alcohol.

You Yanks are so uptight about the booze its unbelievable. If you want to see an alcohol problem, try going out on a Friday night in a northern British town.
 
I realize almost nobody is going to agree with this position.

Even if you disagree, check out the links in the OP. They're interesting.

Cheers.
 
nosho said:
I realize almost nobody is going to agree with this position.

Even if you disagree, check out the links in the OP. They're interesting.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Few people agree because your position is ridiculous. Any mind altering substance or recreational behavior is prone in way to some risks. Your criticism applies as much to playing american football as it does to drinking.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
Few people agree because your position is ridiculous. Any mind altering substance or recreational behavior is prone in way to some risks. Your criticism applies as much to playing american football as it does to drinking.
Click to expand...
That's what we as a society like to tell ourselves. But it's not true.

Your not going to find many studies linking American football with the incidence of domestic violence, rape, murder, criminal recidivism, etc.

Alcohol is addictive in a way that most recreational behavior is not. Its use is also much more widespread and socially acceptable than any other type of mind-altering substance.

You're comparing apples and oranges.
 
Some people can drink and it exaggerates their worst characteristics. They become aggressive, nasty, confrontational, paranoid, violent, uncaring, stupid, etc.

Some people can drink and it enhances their best characteristics. They become funny, charming, daring, flirty, cheeky, sharp, open, tolerant etc.

For me personally, the disadvantages of alcohol far outweigh the benefits, both to the individual and society, but I know plenty of people who drink responsibly and plenty of people who don't turn into Mel Gibsons.

As far as encouraging others to drink, that doesn't make any sense on the back of your 'individual choice' comment. Either it's about individual personal responsibility or it isn't. I don't disagree that some people are influenced by what their parents, friends or peers are doing, but the weight of responsibility still lies with them ultimately.

I am not going to change my lifestyle because other people might copy me and not handle the outcome as well. That's nuts. I don't drink and never have, and I can't say it's had much influence on people around me other than my husband.

Some people like to drink, some don't. Some people are jerks when drunk, some are great. Richard Feynman liked to say "you don't have to be responsible for the world around you". I broadly agree with that, on an individual level. If society has a drinking problem, that doesn't mean the individual has to stop drinking, even if you can prove that his moderate actions contribute to the extreme actions of other individuals.
 
nosho said:
That's what we as a society like to tell ourselves. But it's not true.

Your not going to find many studies linking American football with the incidence of domestic violence, rape, murder, criminal recidivism, etc.

Alcohol is addictive in a way that most recreational behavior is not. Its use is also much more widespread and socially acceptable than any other type of mind-altering substance.

You're comparing apples and oranges.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find those activities are linked with the person committing them being a twat. Drinking does not make an ordinary person into a violent person, a rapist, a murderer or a criminal
 
Cuddles said:
I regularly give up drinking. When in university I drank almost every day, usually just a couple of social pints in the pub. When on holiday with a temp job I usually drank nothing for a couple of weeks because no-one was around to drink with. I know there are some people with problems, but I think most people are like me, they will drink socially as much as they like, but have no problem not drinking if there is no reason to.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're right. Then there are those relatively fewer people unlike you for whom it will be a problem. They see you drink. They see it's not a problem for you. You set an example for them that they, for whatever reason, are unable to follow.

When we drink, the social reality is that it doesn't affect just us. It effects everyone around us, too.
 
nosho said:
I'm sure you're right. Then there are those relatively fewer people unlike you for whom it will be a problem. They see you drink. They see it's not a problem for you. You set an example for them that they, for whatever reason, are unable to follow.

When we drink, the social reality is that it doesn't affect just us. It effects everyone around us, too.
Click to expand...

So because people are sheep, I need to hand them a disclaimer telling them that their "experiences may vary"?
 
tkingdoll said:
As far as encouraging others to drink, that doesn't make any sense on the back of your 'individual choice' comment. Either it's about individual personal responsibility or it isn't. I don't disagree that some people are influenced by what their parents, friends or peers are doing, but the weight of responsibility still lies with them ultimately.

I am not going to change my lifestyle because other people might copy me and not handle the outcome as well. That's nuts. I don't drink and never have, and I can't say it's had much influence on people around me other than my husband.
Click to expand...
You are absolutely right that the weight of responsibility still lies with them ultimately.

Even so, we have to recognize that our own behavior will influence others. Particularly if we are parents. When we drink in front of our children, we are teaching them to drink.
 
Johnny Pixels said:
Drinking does not make an ordinary person into a violent person, a rapist, a murderer or a criminal
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You're right, of course. But drinking tends to lower inhibitions. Many times people do things after drinking that they ordinarily would not do.
 
nosho said:
You're right, of course. But drinking tends to lower inhibitions. Many times people do things after drinking that they ordinarily would not do.
Click to expand...

If those things cause a problem then they should drink in moderation or not at all. I'm not responsible for another person actions.
 
Johnny Pixels said:
So because people are sheep, I need to hand them a disclaimer telling them that their "experiences may vary"?
Click to expand...
No. But I think it's wise to be aware of how our own behavior has social consequences.

One problem is, a few people act like sheep.
 
nosho said:
why not do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop for another month? And then another?
Click to expand...
I like drink. And because I do it in moderation, it's apparently quite good for me. So stopping isn't doing me any favours. In this country at least we have hundreds of years of culture steeped in drink, so I doubt if my stopping drinking will encourage anyone else to stop. So it's a lose-lose situation.

Whose round is it anyway? I bought the last one.
 
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