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Can dogs count????

Ralph

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I have 2 golden retrievers.

Lets say I have an odd # of treats----7 or 9 for example.

I toss one to dog A first--then one to dog B----then back to dog A...etc etc until done.

Dog A obviously got one more treat than dog B.


Does Dog B know he was shortchanged.........and is he a little ticked off about it?????
 
I don't think they can count very high...But dogs can realize that one dog got 2 treats while he only got 1.

I have 3 treats and give one to one dog and then one to the other and the one to the one dog again...The other dog knows the other got 2 and he only got one.


But if I do it with let's say...6 or 7 treats...They don't know the difference.


It must be done at seperate times...You can't give the one dog the 2 treats at the same time or the other will just think it is one treat.You must give one 1 treat and then give the other 1 treat and then give the one 1 more treat...The other one will notice that the one one got 2 treats while he only got 1.

The one with only 1 treats expects another treat....and attacks the other dog when he does not get it. while the dog with 2 treats does not expect another and knows I have none left in my hand.

I have learnt to give them the same number of treats.
 
Can children count naturally or do they need to be trained?

Dogs associate an action with a reaction. They don't understand English but they recognise the sound of the word "Sit" and learn if they put their bum on the floor they get a treat. You could use "bannanas" if you want it is just the association of a sound (or hand signal etc) with an action to be performed.

In turn you could (possibly) train a dog to bark the same number of times as the number of treats placed in front of them. I doubt their brains would be working it out in the same manner that we do or that they would figure out the way the the decimal number system "builds" to allow them to work out larger numbers based on knowing smaller numbers and the "rules" of the decimal system. I suspect it would be more like 1,2,3,4,5, and "Lots".

Maybe there is a little project for me to try if I can find the clicker again.
 
My dog could certainly count (at least for small numbers).

This was demonstrated whenever I showed the dog I had three treats in my pocket and then only gave him two!
 
Jaggy Bunnet said:
My dog could certainly count (at least for small numbers).

This was demonstrated whenever I showed the dog I had three treats in my pocket and then only gave him two!
Click to expand...

Interesting. I'd like to hear a bit more about how you tested this. i.e.
- How did the dog react when you withheld a treat (suspect sniffing round your pocket / hand?)
- Does the dog react differently if you give it all of the treats in one go (wanders off)
- Could the dog have smelled that you retained a treat?

Just wondering!!
 
I don't know if my dog can count but he can measure. If I hold food in both hands with one hand containing more than the other (same food), he will look at both hands and go for the hand with more food first. I have done this with bowls of food as well ... one with very little and the other containing the same food but a good deal more. He will select the fuller bowl first.

I guess its the bird in the hand approach.
 
materia3 said:
I don't know if my dog can count but he can measure. If I hold food in both hands with one hand containing more than the other (same food), he will look at both hands and go for the hand with more food first. I have done this with bowls of food as well ... one with very little and the other containing the same food but a good deal more. He will select the fuller bowl first.

I guess its the bird in the hand approach.
Click to expand...
Or it could be a survival issue. Consider animals in the wild, especially carnivores where there may be others competing for the same food. Get as much down you as quickly as you can so you don't loose out.
 
Ralph said:
I have 2 golden retrievers.

Lets say I have an odd # of treats----7 or 9 for example.

I toss one to dog A first--then one to dog B----then back to dog A...etc etc until done.

Dog A obviously got one more treat than dog B.


Does Dog B know he was shortchanged.........and is he a little ticked off about it?????
Click to expand...

With four question marks in the thread title and five question marks in the last sentence, I'm going to need to see some evidence that you can count before I address the issue of whether your dogs can count.
 
Ralph said:
Dog A obviously got one more treat than dog B.

Does Dog B know he was shortchanged.........and is he a little ticked off about it?????
Click to expand...

Based on my experience with doggy psychology, I'd say it depends on how fast they eat their respective treats. If one dog sees the other eating when there is nothing left in front of him, he's going to feel jealous. This is independent of how much each dog actually got.
 
I remember reading an article some months ago about an experiment alleged to show that dogs are capable of counting. Using a search engine came up with various results, one of which was http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2163770.stm which does contain one thing I remember reading from before, that knowing how many enemies and allies a wolf had in a pack would be a useful thing for it to know.
 
Stitch said:
Can children count naturally or do they need to be trained?
Click to expand...

Stitch- I have read of experiments observing babies' "startle"response, which suggest that babies can certainly count to two.
Basically, two people go behind a screen. The baby sees this , and then loses interest . The screen is then removed. If there are two people there, the baby will look for a certain time, then again lose interest.

If one person has left by a concealed exit, the baby will pay far more attention.

I don't know if the same test has been tried with dogs.

Whether distinguishing between one and two is actually "counting" is another question. I doubt it. I suspect counting is the conscious extension of an innate ability to differentiate between small quantities.
 
Re: Re: Can dogs count????

rppa said:
Based on my experience with doggy psychology, I'd say it depends on how fast they eat their respective treats. If one dog sees the other eating when there is nothing left in front of him, he's going to feel jealous. This is independent of how much each dog actually got.
Click to expand...

I think you're right. Where the hell are the pet psychics when you really need them!
 
Soapy Sam said:
Stitch- I have read of experiments observing babies' "startle"response, which suggest that babies can certainly count to two.


...snip...
Click to expand...

And I'm sure your kids will be fine once they leave the institute....
 
Re: Re: Re: Can dogs count????

Ralph said:
I think you're right. Where the hell are the pet psychics when you really need them!
Click to expand...

Maybe you and I have just known greedier dogs than the others in this thread. In my experience, a dog always suspects that somebody somewhere is getting a treat he isn't. The concept "I already had my share" isn't part of this world view.
 
My experience.

Give Dog A two treats. Then give Dog B one treat.

Since Dog A saw Dog B given a treat and she didn't receive the last one, she will be the mad dog. Even though she got two. Dog B will be happy as she got the last one.


I've learned to give them treats at the same time.
 
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