• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism?

Kumar

Unregistered
K
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
14,259
Hello all,

Autoimmunity is thought to be a disorder of our immune system having only a negative impact of our various body parts.

Immune system defends you. It sees and kills the germs that might hurt you.
But when the system doesn't work right, this process can cause harm. Immune cells can mistake your body's own cells as invaders and attack them. This "friendly fire" can affect almost any part of the body. It can sometimes affect many parts of the body at once. This is called autoimmunity (meaning self-immunity). No one knows why the immune system treats some body parts like germs.
http://www.niams.nih.gov/hi/topics/autoimmune/autoimmunity.htm
Click to expand...

However I have some doubts;

Whether so thought Autoimmunity is really "always a harming disorder" of our system or Can it also be a positive natural defence mechanism of our immune system to save our life as a whole at the cost of some temporary or permanent damages by causing Autoimmunities?

Let us think about latent infections, cancer or other chronic diseases. Can it be possible that some damages may take place in form of Autoimmunities to starve the "disease causing agents" from their required nutrients, Oxygen etc. to resist or restrict their growth & spread OR encourage anorexia to withhold intestinal absorptions for this purpose? Can pancreatic islet cell damages in diabetes, be meant to save us from hyperinsulinemia's mediated persistant effects? Other autoimmune diseases can also be thought for some " possible natural body's mechanism" hidden behind these "to save us as a whole at the cost of some".

Pls try to find out "positives" to this effect from devoting our time to this topic.

Best Wishes.
 
Kumar said:
Hello all,

Autoimmunity is thought to be a disorder of our immune system having only a negative impact of our various body parts.

Not exactly. First of all, it is not thought to be a disorder of our immune system, it is known to be that. Secondly, it may sometimes have positive effects. It is just that it is a sort of an overkill.

However I have some doubts;

Don't you always :rolleyes:?

Whether so thought Autoimmunity is really "always a harming disorder" of our system or Can it also be a positive natural defence mechanism of our immune system to save our life as a whole at the cost of some temporary or permanent damages by causing Autoimmunities?

Let us think about latent infections, cancer or other chronic diseases. Can it be possible that some damages may take place in form of Autoimmunities to starve the "disease causing agents" from their required nutrients, Oxygen etc. to resist or restrict their growth & spread OR encourage anorexia to withhold intestinal absorptions for this purpose?

No, but it can sometimes be thought of as collateral damage. A number of the body's reactions to infections are partly destructive, but the overall effect is positive.

Can pancreatic islet cell damages in diabetes, be meant to save us from hyperinsulinemia's mediated persistant effects?

There is no reason to think so.

Other autoimmune diseases can also be thought for some " possible natural body's mechanism" hidden behind these "to save us as a whole at the cost of some".

Since none of your examples have merit, you cannot say "also".

Pls try to find out "positives" to this effect from devoting our time to this topic.

There don't seem to be any positives.
Click to expand...

Hans
 
Kumar, the immune system itself is, as you put it, "a positive natural defence mechanism." Autoimmune diseases are caused by this system malfunctioning so that it doesn't correctly identify the body's own cells.

Edited to make it clearer that I was replying to Kumar, not Hans.
 
Kumar said:
Can pancreatic islet cell damages in diabetes, be meant to save us from hyperinsulinemia's mediated persistant effects?
Click to expand...
No. Type 1 diabetes appears to be triggered by infections, not by insulin or glucose imbalances. You're thinking of type 2 diabetes, I think.
 
Mr Hans, Mojo,

Thanks & welcome.

Pls re-think about autoimmune oriented anemias. Can these be triggered to restrict & resist nutrients & oxygen to tumor/disease causing agents? Pls also think effects of our interferances before natural maturing of autoimmune effects. Can autoimmunities treat any disease for which it is meant or can it save our life as a whole at cost of some, if not intrefered? How can't we say that some damage to pancreatic islet cells , may either be meant for reducing insulin secretions to save us from hyperinsulinemea oriented complications or do it temporarly & regrow them again at some suitable time? Can't our interferances by medicines, interfere some natural process in this respect?

Idiopathic autoimmune hemolytic anemia results from an abnormality of the immune system that destroys red blood cells prematurely. The cause is unknown.http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000579.htm
Click to expand...
 
Re: Re: Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism?

Mojo said:
No. Type 1 diabetes appears to be triggered by infections, not by insulin or glucose imbalances. You're thinking of type 2 diabetes, I think.
Click to expand...

Type2 NIDDM can be progressed to IDDM, somewhat type1. Think if you go on encouraging or inducing more & more insulin, can it trigger its autoimmunity to save us from excess insulin?
 
Kumar said:
How can't we say that some damage to pancreatic islet cells , may either be meant for reducing insulin secretions to save us from hyperinsulinemea oriented complications or do it temporarly & regrow them again at some suitable time?
Click to expand...
Read what I posted above about type 1 diabetes. In any case, they don't regrow. That's why people with type 1 diabetes are on insulin for the rest of their life.
Can't our interferances by medicines, interfere some natural process in this respect?
Click to expand...
No.
 
Mojo said:
Read what I posted above about type 1 diabetes. In any case, they don't regrow. That's why people with type 1 diabetes are on insulin for the rest of their life.No.
Click to expand...

Type1 is already a damaged structure. Think about type2 progressing to type1. Do we have datas about disease progress on non treated type2 patients?

Pernicious anemia is seen in association with some autoimmune endocrine diseases such as type 1 diabetes, hypoparathyroidism, Addison's disease, hypopituitarism, testicular dysfunction, Graves disease, chronic thyroiditis, myasthenia gravis, secondary amenorrhea and vitiligo....

Tests that may indicate pernicious anemia include:

CBC results that show low hematocrit and hemoglobin with elevated MCV (low red blood cell count with large-sized red blood cells)
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000569.htm
Click to expand...

Will such "low red blood cell count with large-sized red blood cells" can be meant to restrict nutrition/O2 to tumor/encapsuled disease causing agents?
 
Re: Re: Re: Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism?

Kumar said:
Type2 NIDDM can be progressed to IDDM, somewhat type1. Think if you go on encouraging or inducing more & more insulin, can it trigger its autoimmunity to save us from excess insulin?
Click to expand...
No. The development of insulin dependence in type 2 diabetics seems to be caused by the elevated blood glucose "wearing out" the beta cells, not by an autoimmune response.
 
originally posted by Kumar
Pernicious anemia is seen in association with some autoimmune endocrine diseases such as type 1 diabetes, hypoparathyroidism, Addison's disease, hypopituitarism, testicular dysfunction, Graves disease, chronic thyroiditis, myasthenia gravis, secondary amenorrhea and vitiligo....
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
So you've found a quotation saying that an autoimmune condition is seen in association with other autoimmune conditions... :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism?

Mojo said:
No. The development of insulin dependence in type 2 diabetics seems to be caused by the elevated blood glucose "wearing out" the beta cells, not by an autoimmune response.
Click to expand...

Probably, the next generations of all such type2 IDDM may become type1. How it can be measured, whether it is a "wearing out" the beta cells or a damage due to autoimune response?

Why "wearing out" the beta cells does not take place in non-diabetic patients, eating excessively?

We may need badly a comparative data of treated type 2 & non- treated T2 patients, to understad it? But how data of non-treated can be available?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism?

Kumar said:
Why "wearing out" the beta cells does not take place in non-diabetic patients, eating excessively?
Click to expand...
Because they're not diabetic, so don't have the insulin resistance/hyperglycaemia problem.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism?

Kumar said:
Probably, the next generations of all such type2 IDDM may become type1.
Click to expand...
No. Evolution does not work by inheritance of acquired characteristics. In any case, they're really different conditions with different aetiologies, albeit with similar symptoms.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism?

Mojo said:
No. Evolution does not work by inheritance of acquired characteristics. In any case, they're really different conditions with different aetiologies, albeit with similar symptoms.
Click to expand...

Whether autoimmunity is an inherited condition of aquired within one's lifetime?

Wherher autoimmunity is the result of any chronic condition or also possible in acute condition?
 
Kumar,

Your arguments don't follow what we know is true. You mentioned cancer cells and autoimmunity. We already know that the immune system attacks cancer cells, but you don't need an autoimmune response to do it (in other words, cancer patients, by and large, do not develop autoimmune diseases)

In regards to diabetes, pancreatitis, and autoimmunity, I will concur with Mojo....

Edited to add: Furthermore, except in rare cases, pancreatitis is not an autoimmune disease.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism?

Mojo said:
You don't expect him to read all that lot (or indeed any of it), do you?
Click to expand...
Of course not, but I have found that sometimes I have to reply or my head will explode, and a quick google and link is enough to stop the jonesing.
 
Mouthfire said:
Kumar,

Your arguments don't follow what we know is true. You mentioned cancer cells and autoimmunity. We already know that the immune system attacks cancer cells, but you don't need an autoimmune response to do it (in other words, cancer patients, by and large, do not develop autoimmune diseases)

In regards to diabetes, pancreatitis, and autoimmunity, I will concur with Mojo....
Click to expand...

Such diseases as rheumatoid arthritis, connective tissue disorders, chronic infection, trauma or malignancy are commonly confused with mild iron deficiency anemia. Instead, they are related to anemia of chronic disease. The body will naturally withhold iron from carcinogenic or infectious entities because of their need for iron. In these cases, iron upplementation can actually contribute to the spread of disease. http://www.innvista.com/health/ailments/anemias/irondef.htm
Click to expand...

Why hemolytic & Pernicious anemias can't be possible for the above purpose?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can Autoimmunity be a Positive Immune Mechanism?

Donks said:
Of course not, but I have found that sometimes I have to reply or my head will explode, and a quick google and link is enough to stop the jonesing.
Click to expand...

Your link also mentions it.

"Adequate Iron but the Body Withholds
Diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, connective tissue disorders, chronic infection, trauma or malignancy can commonly be confused with mild iron deficiency anemia. These conditions of anemia are related to chronic disease. Our body will naturally withhold iron from carcinogenic or infectious entities because of their need for iron. Supplementation with iron in these cases can contribute to the spread of disease. "
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom