Bullycide

[LibraryLady]

I'm a little hesitant about starting a new thread about bullying. However, it is a subject about which I am so interested in and have a lot of emotional investment in. My last venture was sidetracked, so I'd like to start fresh and in a more specific way.

There is a new term out there, "bullycide," the act of bullying another person until they commit suicide. Whether or not suicide is the outcome the bully is seeking, it applies. I first heard the term last week on a judge show, of all places.

The show led me to this Web site as well.

There have been arguments made on this forum that the victims of bullying only need to stand up for themselves and the problem will be solved. I believe it is more complicated than that. I speak as a past victim of bullying, in junior high school (age 13) and in my family. Unless the "standing up" is done in an effective way, it can actually exacerbate the problem, rather than solving it, and most victims, especially the children, are not educated about and certainly do not know instinctively how to deal with it effectively.

Often, the victim is somehow different than the majority, perceived as gay, atheist, or otherwise not the "norm."

We are a community, a community of skeptics. Is there something that we as a group can do to help alleviate this problem? If the answer is no, what should we be doing as individuals? Or is this not an issue we should deal with at all? I am open to that answer.

I would like to hear thoughts about this. I know it is an emotional issue for some of us.

 

[truethat]

Oh great yet another coined term of victimization in the US. Like we didn't have enough already. Lets just keep churning 'em out. Meanwhile elsewhere in the world people are dying from lack or water, oppression and war and starvation. But ya know we gotta give it to the Americans, we sure do know how to make ourselves feel sorry for ourselves.

I was bullied relentlessly as a kid. Beaten up nearly every day after school. It sucked. I worked through it. I can see that it can cause someone to become suicidal and of course should be stopped at all costs. But please, enought with the victimspeak.

What's next? Wrist bands and ribbon pins?

 

[LibraryLady]

I am not suggesting wrist bands or ribbon pins. I am asking if this community should be involved in helping to educate people about it. If your answer is no, that's fine.

ETA: Apparently the term, "bullycide," is not used exclusively in America: http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/cases.htm

Another ETA: And was coined in Great Britain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Field

 

[sgtbaker]

Oh great yet another coined term of victimization in the US. Like we didn't have enough already. Lets just keep churning 'em out. Meanwhile elsewhere in the world people are dying from lack or water, oppression and war and starvation. But ya know we gotta give it to the Americans, we sure do know how to make ourselves feel sorry for ourselves.

I was bullied relentlessly as a kid. Beaten up nearly every day after school. It sucked. I worked through it. I can see that it can cause someone to become suicidal and of course should be stopped at all costs. But please, enought with the victimspeak.

What's next? Wrist bands and ribbon pins?

I think cyber-bullying and kids with video cameras on their cell phones brings bullying to an entirely new level. Law makers are constantly talking about how the anonymity of the internet emboldens the bully. I was bullied, as well, but I thank my lucky stars that I am not an awkward teen in this age. I think it deserves a term.

 

[truethat]

I think cyber-bullying and kids with video cameras on their cell phones brings bullying to an entirely new level. Law makers are constantly talking about how the anonymity of the internet emboldens the bully. I was bullied, as well, but I thank my lucky stars that I am not an awkward teen in this age. I think it deserves a term.

Cyber bullying is a new thing. I have no problem coing that term. But bullycide?

Also parents need to be way more involved with their kids online. I'm so shocked to see the pictures that girls put up on their facebook page. My son has them as friends and they are very hyper sexualized pix. I can't imagine that a parent would allow their daughter to use a pix like that.

 

[Chaos]

I am not suggesting wrist bands or ribbon pins. I am asking if this community should be involved in helping to educate people about it. If your answer is no, that's fine.

ETA: Apparently the term, "bullycide," is not used exclusively in America: http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/cases.htm

I think bullying needs to stop. Or at least be minimized.

However, I don´t think that educating anyone is going to be much help. This isn´t about people not knowing something. This is about people looking the other way, intentionally, either because they don´t care or because they, too, are afraid of the bully.

And bullies don´t speak "educate", either. They only speak "brute force". I have stopped people from bullying me twice. Both times was through use of brute force, i.e. a punch in the face. That wasn´t terribly nice, but I don´t regret it, and if I was in the situation again, and thought it would work, I would do it any moment.

 

[truethat]

I am not suggesting wrist bands or ribbon pins. I am asking if this community should be involved in helping to educate people about it. If your answer is no, that's fine.

ETA: Apparently the term, "bullycide," is not used exclusively in America: http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/cases.htm

Another ETA: And was coined in Great Britain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Field

I was actually going to toss England in there as well because they've gotten quite good at whinging as well.

If these are the problems we have in our lives we need to get busy doing something else. These are signs of societal malaise and kids chained to computer devices.

What some jerk online thinks of you is nothing. I know how young teens can be very cruel to one another and how they humiliate each other. But instead of teaching kids that this is some tragedy, we do need to teach them to get over and move on. Don't care so much.

 

[IDB87]

There have been arguments made on this forum that the victims of bullying only need to stand up for themselves and the problem will be solved.

When I was a freshman in high school, there was a girl who was emotionally unstable in my English class and would often cut herself for whatever reason. She did her best to keep it a secret, but it wasn't hard to notice if you knew what to look for. Regardless, she was harassed because of this on a near daily basis by a group of other girls in the class and it was shocking hearing these girls demand she go further and just off herself completely, especially when nothing would be done by the teacher (asides from handing out detentions). She eventually did stand up for herself (to a point) only to be jumped -in class- by the 5 or so girls and beaten pretty badly.

She ended up getting professional help after an attempted suicide, and as far as I know, she has been living a rather normal life.

I guess the point is if the teacher had perhaps done a little more than shrug it off, it may not have gotten so bad in that particular instance. However there is only so much you can do in the class room. Several of those stories you linked to reported the bullying continuing online and outside of the school.

I can't think of any real, tangible solution other perhaps having a school for the 'bullied' that could bring these victims together, school them without the fear, and perhaps even offer therapy or counseling. But if the victim never talks about their bullying..

*shrugg*

 

[truethat]

When I was a freshman in high school, there was a girl who was emotionally unstable in my English class and would often cut herself for whatever reason. She did her best to keep it a secret, but it wasn't hard to notice if you knew what to look for. Regardless, she was harassed because of this on a near daily basis by a group of other girls in the class and it was shocking hearing these girls demand she go further and just off herself completely, especially when nothing would be done by the teacher (asides from handing out detentions). She eventually did stand up for herself (to a point) only to be jumped -in class- by the 5 or so girls and beaten pretty badly.

She ended up getting professional help after an attempted suicide, and as far as I know, she has been living a rather normal life.

I guess the point is if the teacher had perhaps done a little more than shrug it off, it may not have gotten so bad in that particular instance. However there is only so much you can do in the class room. Several of those stories you linked to reported the bullying continuing online and outside of the school.

I can't think of any real, tangible solution other perhaps having a school for the 'bullied' that could bring these victims together, school them without the fear, and perhaps even offer therapy or counseling. But if the victim never talks about their bullying..

*shrugg*

It's also a little creepy to me when "weirdo" kids with emotional problems are picked on. Then they do something bonkers and everyone blames the bullying for making them snap.

There are some types of people that other people just don't like. They get a weird vibe about them.

Now in some cases bullying is about picking on the gay kid outsider or strange bird. But other times I've seen people just not liking someone who is anti social.

Like the kid who did the shooting in Arizona. Or the school shooters in Columbine. Are we going to rewrite history and call that bullycide?

Before we toss out the new terminology we ought to take a good long look at the reality of bullying. Not just the emotional pleading and hard experiences.

What causes a group to react so negatively towards one person. It happened to me and years later I realized uh, yeah I WAS a weirdo. It does make sense. It shows.

 

[CplFerro]

"Bullycide" is a stupid word because it literally means "killer of bullies." Is it patricide when your father kills you? Is it regicide when Regis Philbin kills you?

The relevant term that the relevant Victim Cultists should use, but won't, would be something like "nerdicide" or "dorkicide."

Cpl Ferro

 

[sadhatter]

I'm a little hesitant about starting a new thread about bullying. However, it is a subject about which I am so interested in and have a lot of emotional investment in. My last venture was sidetracked, so I'd like to start fresh and in a more specific way.

There is a new term out there, "bullycide," the act of bullying another person until they commit suicide. Whether or not suicide is the outcome the bully is seeking, it applies. I first heard the term last week on a judge show, of all places.

The show led me to this Web site as well.

There have been arguments made on this forum that the victims of bullying only need to stand up for themselves and the problem will be solved. I believe it is more complicated than that. I speak as a past victim of bullying, in junior high school (age 13) and in my family. Unless the "standing up" is done in an effective way, it can actually exacerbate the problem, rather than solving it, and most victims, especially the children, are not educated about and certainly do not know instinctively how to deal with it effectively.

Often, the victim is somehow different than the majority, perceived as gay, atheist, or otherwise not the "norm."

We are a community, a community of skeptics. Is there something that we as a group can do to help alleviate this problem? If the answer is no, what should we be doing as individuals? Or is this not an issue we should deal with at all? I am open to that answer.

I would like to hear thoughts about this. I know it is an emotional issue for some of us.

As someone who was bullied ( when your a bisexual , punk rock, actor in a small town, kinda hard to get by. Not to mention that until about grade 11 or so i was pushing 300 pounds. ) as a kid the only advice i can give is advice that people today don't want to hear.

Fight, and fight dirty.

No one is around there friends 24/7, and no one has eyes in the back of their head. Your going to take some beatings, and your going to get into trouble, but after a few goes, and a few heads bounced off urinals, you present a risk, and simply out of a want for a lack of hassle you will be left more alone.

And fighting dirty doesn't mean, bring a knife, it doesn't mean beat someones skull to a pulp. Property damage was the motto of the punk group in my area. Someone harassing you in a car? Well, your a kid, more than likely it is their parents car, and more than likely they picked a spot where no one was around. There are many ways to shatter a windshield that can be carried around with a person. Touch up paint can be used to make a point to someone if you don't want to throw a punch, an open bottle quickly turns a pair of 200 dollar shoes into modern art. Eventually the parents are going to wonder why this keeps happening. And while you don't have power, they certainly do.

There is another option, to simply take the crap. If you don't want to deal with the blowback, and you don't want to deal with the trouble that you will get into, simply get by, high school isn't forever.

Personally, i would suggest a mixture of the two, be unpredictable. What i always did, and i came out of my teenage years with a minimum of scars, emotional or otherwise.

This whole " Defeat hate with love." mantra, is doing nothing more than taking the power the victims have away. Sure, we would all love to live in a world without violence, or retribution, but utopia is for Utopians. And , especially in high school, no one is a Utopian.

 

[truethat]

"Bullycide" is a stupid word because it literally means "killer of bullies." Is it patricide when your father kills you? Is it regicide when Regis Philbin kills you?

The relevant term that the relevant Victim Cultists should use, but won't, would be something like "nerdicide" or "dorkicide."

Cpl Ferro

LMAO I think you just coined two phrases that will wind up all over the internet is 5....4...3...2....

 

[Varanid]

[understanding tone]
I think Bullying children is a valid issue to try to resolve. I am not sure you will like my advice for fixing it though.

I was bullied a bit as a 5th/6th/7th grader. You know what stopped it? Kicking the bullies ass. I know this isn't ground breaking news or anything, and it sounds like a movie from the 80's, but ultimately I think that this is the best path. For the record, I am a bed wetting, liberal, touchy-feely, pacifist, lover, not a fighter. Though at the end of the day, sometimes you gotta throw them 'bows. I got bullied a bit in middle school. I tried all of the usual things my parents/teachers/principals offered- ignored them, stayed away from them, tried to befriend them, etc. No dice.

One day in seventh grade, this kid pushed my books down for the last time, and the next thing you know there are fifty kids surrounding us, chanting "fight-fight-fight" and I am pummeling him. At the time, I was nearing my black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and as such this kid never stood a chance. I was a rockstar at school (for about 45 minutes, then someone got caught smoking and immediately out-keweled me) and, the bullying stopped immediately. Never again, gone.

Even though I agree that 99.9% of fights can be avoided, some shouldn't be. There are some cases where it is all that will help imo. So, get your kids quality self defense training of some kind. Even though I no longer practice in a dojo, I am quite comfortable in my skin knowing that I am likely able to protect myself (from your average unarmed male).

My opinion comes with the assumption that we are talking about more or less average males of similar age. I don't know how the dynamics of adolescent girls would work. Further, kids with disabilities or those who are far behind the physical developmental curve may not have this option. Fortunately, at least in my experience, the "bully code" has them mostly on picking on kids that could defend themselves, given some training and self confidence.

[/understanding tone]

 

[truethat]

[understanding tone]
I think Bullying children is a valid issue to try to resolve. I am not sure you will like my advice for fixing it though.

I was bullied a bit as a 5th/6th/7th grader. You know what stopped it? Kicking the bullies ass. I know this isn't ground breaking news or anything, and it sounds like a movie from the 80's, but ultimately I think that this is the best path. For the record, I am a bed wetting, liberal, touchy-feely, pacifist, lover, not a fighter. Though at the end of the day, sometimes you gotta throw them 'bows. I got bullied a bit in middle school. I tried all of the usual things my parents/teachers/principals offered- ignored them, stayed away from them, tried to befriend them, etc. No dice.

One day in seventh grade, this kid pushed my books down for the last time, and the next thing you know there are fifty kids surrounding us, chanting "fight-fight-fight" and I am pummeling him. At the time, I was nearing my black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and as such this kid never stood a chance. I was a rockstar at school (for about 45 minutes, then someone got caught smoking and immediately out-keweled me) and, the bullying stopped immediately. Never again, gone.

Even though I agree that 99.9% of fights can be avoided, some shouldn't be. There are some cases where it is all that will help imo. So, get your kids quality self defense training of some kind. Even though I no longer practice in a dojo, I am quite comfortable in my skin knowing that I am likely able to protect myself (from your average unarmed male).

My opinion comes with the assumption that we are talking about more or less average males of similar age. I don't know how the dynamics of adolescent girls would work. Further, kids with disabilities or those who are far behind the physical developmental curve may not have this option. Fortunately, at least in my experience, the "bully code" has them mostly on picking on kids that could defend themselves, given some training and self confidence.

[/understanding tone]

That is exactly my experience!!!! High five. Only mine was coming back from gym class and finding my school clothes soaking in the sink. Two girls against me one fight circle "fight fight fight" Beat the crap out of her.

Ended.

 

[Varanid]

[annoyed]
I don't care about adults being bullied. Dog eat dog world and what not...get your helmet on.

Also, I find it curious that the implication has been made recently that adult men "bullying" adult women on a message board was somehow unseemly. Doesn't the interwebz work as the perfect gender neutralizer? How is a man any more "armed" on the intrawebz than a woman is? There is no physical danger. If anything, I would argue that women are better armed in this virtual environment because of their (broad strokes) better communication and emotional skill sets.
[/annoyed]

 

[Varanid]

That is exactly my experience!!!! High five. Only mine was coming back from gym class and finding my school clothes soaking in the sink. Two girls against me one fight circle "fight fight fight" Beat the crap out of her.

Ended.

*high five* Hell yeah.

*Takes high road, doesn't even mention the whole girls fighting in the locker room with wet clothes angle*

*closes this browser, opens another....*

 

[LibraryLady]

I was actually going to toss England in there as well because they've gotten quite good at whinging as well.

*snip*

Who, exactly, are the whingers? The parents whose children have committed suicide? The children who have died? Or the children whose education is being interrupted because school has become such a hostile place?

It's also a little creepy to me when "weirdo" kids with emotional problems are picked on. Then they do something bonkers and everyone blames the bullying for making them snap.

So, you take an emotionally fragile child, torture them, and then blame the child for "snapping?"

There are some types of people that other people just don't like. They get a weird vibe about them.

Like people with Asperger syndrome, for example. Do they deserve to be bullied because they are not likable?

Now in some cases bullying is about picking on the gay kid outsider or strange bird. But other times I've seen people just not liking someone who is anti social.

Like the kid who did the shooting in Arizona. Or the school shooters in Columbine. Are we going to rewrite history and call that bullycide?

Please excuse me while I spit out the words you just put in my mouth.

Okay, that's done. According to the reading I've done, the boys at Columbine were the bullies, not victims of bullies. Perhaps if their bullying had been stopped earlier, the shootings would not have happened. I don't know. Neither do you.

I know very little about the Tuscon shooter, but it appears he is mentally ill and a bit of a bully himself, judging from his classroom behavior.

Before we toss out the new terminology we ought to take a good long look at the reality of bullying. Not just the emotional pleading and hard experiences.

What causes a group to react so negatively towards one person. It happened to me and years later I realized uh, yeah I WAS a weirdo. It does make sense. It shows.

Okay, you deserved to be bullied because you were different. I did not.

As someone who was bullied ( when your a bisexual , punk rock, actor in a small town, kinda hard to get by. Not to mention that until about grade 11 or so i was pushing 300 pounds. ) as a kid the only advice i can give is advice that people today don't want to hear.

Fight, and fight dirty.

No one is around there friends 24/7, and no one has eyes in the back of their head. Your going to take some beatings, and your going to get into trouble, but after a few goes, and a few heads bounced off urinals, you present a risk, and simply out of a want for a lack of hassle you will be left more alone.

And fighting dirty doesn't mean, bring a knife, it doesn't mean beat someones skull to a pulp. Property damage was the motto of the punk group in my area. Someone harassing you in a car? Well, your a kid, more than likely it is their parents car, and more than likely they picked a spot where no one was around. There are many ways to shatter a windshield that can be carried around with a person. Touch up paint can be used to make a point to someone if you don't want to throw a punch, an open bottle quickly turns a pair of 200 dollar shoes into modern art. Eventually the parents are going to wonder why this keeps happening. And while you don't have power, they certainly do.

There is another option, to simply take the crap. If you don't want to deal with the blowback, and you don't want to deal with the trouble that you will get into, simply get by, high school isn't forever.

Personally, i would suggest a mixture of the two, be unpredictable. What i always did, and i came out of my teenage years with a minimum of scars, emotional or otherwise.

This whole " Defeat hate with love." mantra, is doing nothing more than taking the power the victims have away. Sure, we would all love to live in a world without violence, or retribution, but utopia is for Utopians. And , especially in high school, no one is a Utopian.

It takes a certain amount of strength, physical and emotional, for either of those solutions. My thought is to help people achieve that strength.

 

[truethat]

*high five* Hell yeah.

*Takes high road, doesn't even mention the whole girls fighting in the locker room with wet clothes angle*

*closes this browser, opens another....*

LMFAO! I seriously am.....

 

[LibraryLady]

"Bullycide" is a stupid word because it literally means "killer of bullies." Is it patricide when your father kills you? Is it regicide when Regis Philbin kills you?

The relevant term that the relevant Victim Cultists should use, but won't, would be something like "nerdicide" or "dorkicide."

Cpl Ferro

You are absolutely correct! That is a reasonable reason to not use the word bullycide. However something like "nerdicide" is a continuation of the bullying.

 

[rwguinn]

The biggest problem?
"You are just harassing my kid because he/she is (popular/a jock/big/ahead of the others)
he/she would never do any of those things. So leave him/her alone, or I'll sue!"