Cont: Brexit: Now What? Turning it up to 11

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Continued from here. As is usual, the split point is arbitrary and you may freely quote from earlier editions of the thread.

Posted By: Agatha

EU has a contract with AZ Sweden, which I assume is the holding company for EU operations. The EU prioritised price per dose and production in the EU.

Production in the EU in the contract also includes the UK though

I suspect UK has a contract with AZ plc the overall owner of the group. The UK paid for setting up UK production facilities as AZ did not have any in the UK. A smart biotech venture capitalist would have made sure that they got priority use of any new facilities they were funding.

I thought the AZ factories in UK were EU funded also?

I'm not sure how many smart biotech venture capitalists were involved in the whole process but it looks like AZ have promised priority to both the EU and the UK or at least overpromised what they can deliver to both and are now robbing Peter to pay Paul (probably in both directions) and there is also the question as to whether EU production is being exported to other places.

It's a pity that time and energy is being wasted on a political bunfight rather than all parties co-operating to achieve the best outcome but the 'England First' loons have taken over the asylum what more can we expect?

 

[Aber]

I'm not sure how many smart biotech venture capitalists were involved in the whole process

Look at Kate Bingham's CV.

but it looks like AZ have promised priority to both the EU and the UK or at least overpromised what they can deliver to both

No they have not promised priority to both, and I'm not convinced the EU contract promises anything from the UK - to me it looks as as "may use UK facilities", not "must use" and I think AZ understand their group structure.

They did not overpromise - the schedule was "reasonable endeavours" not a promise. The EU should have investigated further when they saw delays in UK production; and should have been asking for weekly updates from then on. They were too late to sign the contract and seem not to have managed it well since.

I thought the AZ factories in UK were EU funded also?

Why?

IIRC there's a specific clause which talks about setting up more production facilities in the EU if there are more delays. I simply can't see the EU investing in UK facilities given Brexit.

It's a pity that time and energy is being wasted on a political bunfight rather than all parties co-operating to achieve the best outcome but the 'England First' loons have taken over the asylum what more can we expect?

Nothing at all to do with the EU's vaccine problems - they also have delays with other vaccines.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

No they have not promised priority to both, and I'm not convinced the EU contract promises anything from the UK - to me it looks as as "may use UK facilities", not "must use" and I think AZ understand their group structure.

They did not overpromise - the schedule was "reasonable endeavours" not a promise. The EU should have investigated further when they saw delays in UK production; and should have been asking for weekly updates from then on. They were too late to sign the contract and seem not to have managed it well since.

If I remember rightly it's not 'reasonable endeavours' but 'best reasonable endeavours' and by definition you can't be making best endeavours to fulfil 1 contract if you are prioritising another one. I don't think we have seen the UK contract yet and it's entirely possible that they have the same wording or that if they have stronger wording then you can argue that's not fulfiling the wording of the EU contract.

The EU contract promises UK supply to the EU in so much as you consider diverting UK production a 'reasonable best endeavour' which to me it would seem to be. The sticking point being that they also have a UK contract to fulfil. In the fact that they have signed 2 contracts with 2 entities and are unable to deliver then they have overpromised both parties. if they fulfil the EU contract they can't fulfil the UK one (presumably) and vice versa.

Management of the issue isn't really here nor there in terms of determining whether AZ are meeting their contractual obligations.

Why?

I'm fairly sure I read it an article that the EU had partially funded the Welsh facility. But I can't find it now. I could be wrong on that but it's just my remembering

IIRC there's a specific clause which talks about setting up more production facilities in the EU if there are more delays. I simply can't see the EU investing in UK facilities given Brexit.

The clause I was referring to though specifically identifies the UK as part of the EU for the purposes of prioritising production. My reading of it isn't that it says the UK production belongs to the EU but rather in terms of prioritising production the UK production should be considered on a par with EU production. In other words it's perfectly acceptable for AZ to substitute Belgian production with UK production in order to fulfil the contract.

Whether they HAVE to comes back to 'best reasonable endeavours'. IMO if there is a priority for UK contracts then this should have been disclosed to the EU at the time of the contract being agreed as it clearly limits their 'best endeavours' but I am not a lawyer.

Nothing at all to do with the EU's vaccine problems - they also have delays with other vaccines.

But very much to do with the political wrangling. Rather than having 3 entities co-operating on a solution we have 3 entities battling for their own interests. and of course had the UK been part of the EU then the situation wouldn't exist.

 

[angrysoba]

I thought the AZ factories in UK were EU funded also?

My understanding is that the EU did indeed invest a lot of money into the vaccine.

Yes, it is unfortunate that the EU dialed the dispute up to 11, but now I think everyone involved should calm down and figure out the best way forward. Platitudinous? Yes, but so be it.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Daily Mail
Boris's Double Vaccine Victory over the EU

Sunday People
Vaccine Victory

Sundday Express
EU tears itself apart, Global Britain Powers On
Boris toasts another big Brexit bonus (Boris is going to ask if we can join the Trans-Pacific Partnership)

 

[Planigale]

My understanding is that the EU did indeed invest a lot of money into the vaccine.

Yes, it is unfortunate that the EU dialed the dispute up to 11, but now I think everyone involved should calm down and figure out the best way forward. Platitudinous? Yes, but so be it.

The development of vaccine manufacturing capacity in the UK was UK funded. More importantly perhaps the UK invested much earlier, and proportionately more which I suspect is more important, than later when much of the development has already been done.

The big difference is the UK also delivered on vaccine trials via the NHS. These were crucial. The EU has in contrast very poor commitment to vaccine trials. The US and the UK and to a lesser extent South Africa were major contributors to the international trials. The EU has contributed proportionately little.

 

[Klimax]

The development of vaccine manufacturing capacity in the UK was UK funded. More importantly perhaps the UK invested much earlier, and proportionately more which I suspect is more important, than later when much of the development has already been done.
...

Evidence for bolded?
Reminder: EU prepaid 2/3 of contract and contract is worth 870m€.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Dominic Raab tweets

@DominicRaab
United Kingdom government account
The United Kingdom is committed to building an even stronger relationship with dynamic economies in the Pacific region and championing rules-based free trade. I’m delighted that the UK will tomorrow apply to join the Pacific free trade area CPTPP.

 

[Andy_Ross]

For someone who didn't realise the importance of Dover, that's quite a statement.

 

[Planigale]

Evidence for bolded?
Reminder: EU prepaid 2/3 of contract and contract is worth 870m€.

I read a FT article;
https://assets.publishing.service.g...4308/VTF_Interim_report_-_5th_publication.pdf
I get free access as an NHS employee but you may not be able to access article.

Try;
https://assets.publishing.service.g...4308/VTF_Interim_report_-_5th_publication.pdf

From The Guardian (not likely to report favourably on the UK government),

With Brexit looming, the UK drew huge criticism for declining to join EU schemes to purchase PPE and ventilators. There was also growing pressure to join a joint EU procurement plan for vaccines, and to put aside the Brexit rhetoric.

Brussels’ demands were eye-watering: the UK, unlike EU member states, would not be able to take part in the governance of the scheme, including the steering group or the negotiating team.

Britain would have no say in what vaccines to procure, at what price or in what quantity, and for what delivery schedule. There would be no side-deals possible.

The EU had spent just €1.78bn in “risk money”, cash handed to pharmaceutical companies without any guarantee of a return, compared to €1.9bn by the UK and €9bn by the US

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ow-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race

 

[Darat]

For someone who didn't realise the importance of Dover, that's quite a statement.

Have to wait for someone to tell him there is more than one ocean...

 

[Klimax]

I read a FT article;
https://assets.publishing.service.g...4308/VTF_Interim_report_-_5th_publication.pdf
I get free access as an NHS employee but you may not be able to access article.

Try;
https://assets.publishing.service.g...4308/VTF_Interim_report_-_5th_publication.pdf

From The Guardian (not likely to report favourably on the UK government),



https://www.theguardian.com/society...ow-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race

Thanks. Link is working fine.

 

[Planigale]

It is good that things have calmed down. I worry that the recent events are a signifier of irrational hostility in the EU commission against the UK. I find it worrying that what was in essence a commercial dispute escalated very rapidly to an international crisis. What was striking was the third countries which would be excluded from export restrictions e.g. Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, Israel, various ex-Yugoslavia states. But notably not the UK. In particular I wonder why Israel was excluded, since if there is one country that seems to have had disproportionate access to the Pfizer vaccine it is Israel. So it seemed to be a clear anti-UK policy. Introducing barriers on the NI land border suggests that this was never really a priority for the EU to maintain peace, but was something to use against the UK in negotiations. It was openly said within the EU commission that the UK had to suffer for leaving the UK, the rational for this was that if the UK did not suffer then other countries might leave the EU. What I am concerned about is this episode reveals a continued hostility to the UK by the EU commission. Now Brexit has happened I had hoped that a more neutral approach would be followed. Unfortunately this episode will I fear empower the euro-sceptic nationalist tendency in the UK. The EU does not seem to want to be a good neighbour.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

It is good that things have calmed down. I worry that the recent events are a signifier of irrational hostility in the EU commission against the UK. I find it worrying that what was in essence a commercial dispute escalated very rapidly to an international crisis. What was striking was the third countries which would be excluded from export restrictions e.g. Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, Israel, various ex-Yugoslavia states. But notably not the UK. In particular I wonder why Israel was excluded, since if there is one country that seems to have had disproportionate access to the Pfizer vaccine it is Israel. So it seemed to be a clear anti-UK policy. Introducing barriers on the NI land border suggests that this was never really a priority for the EU to maintain peace, but was something to use against the UK in negotiations. It was openly said within the EU commission that the UK had to suffer for leaving the UK, the rational for this was that if the UK did not suffer then other countries might leave the EU. What I am concerned about is this episode reveals a continued hostility to the UK by the EU commission. Now Brexit has happened I had hoped that a more neutral approach would be followed. Unfortunately this episode will I fear empower the euro-sceptic nationalist tendency in the UK. The EU does not seem to want to be a good neighbour.

Its amazing that people think the UK being treated the same as Canada or the US is somehow them being singled out for nasty treatment. That's what the Brexiteers wanted!

 

[Airfix]

The Commission illegally tried to interfere in business contracts.

What we've paid for, we own.
First come first served.

Whilst they dithered we wrote cheques and approved the vaccines.

I'm not a fan of Boris but our vaccine policy is the right policy.

We should of course help our neighbours if we find ourselves with surpluses.

 

[Andy_Ross]

EU also have business contracts with the same suppliers.
The supplier can't rob one to supply the other, both contracts should be honoured.
Maybe the suppliers shouldn't have been so greedy.

 

[Darat]

Its amazing that people think the UK being treated the same as Canada or the US is somehow them being singled out for nasty treatment. That's what the Brexiteers wanted!

Yeah. Stupid and disproportionate moves by the EU but not seeing it being an anti-UK move, simply that we have a strange deal with the EU given the Irish circumstances.

The Commission illegally tried to interfere in business contracts.

What we've paid for, we own.
First come first served.

Whilst they dithered we wrote cheques and approved the vaccines.

I'm not a fan of Boris but our vaccine policy is the right policy.

We should of course help our neighbours if we find ourselves with surpluses.

Unfortunately we don’t know whether the current deal the UK has with various manufacturers are good or not, that information is not being made public.

Certainly we seem to be doing well securing doses, hopefully that will help us get people vaccinated as soon as possible.

 

[Darat]

EU also have business contracts with the same suppliers.
The supplier can't rob one to supply the other, both contracts should be honoured. Maybe the suppliers shouldn't have been so greedy.

Depends on the contracts they’ve signed and which legal system was chosen for the contracts.

 

[Airfix]

EU also have business contracts with the same suppliers.
The supplier can't rob one to supply the other, both contracts should be honoured.
Maybe the suppliers shouldn't have been so greedy.

You're correct the supplier can't rob one to supply the other, BOTH contracts should be honoured, but the Commission were proposing robbing us to supply them.

The Commission, have now conceded that they were wrong.
But this shouldn't have happened in the first place.

If the suppliers cannot produce enough on their own, they should outsource the production of the vaccines.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

What a surprise that a Brexiteer sees things as the EU robbing the UK.

How long before the Daily Mail blames Muslims and the Brexiteers swallow that too?