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Breeding Intelligent Apes

a_unique_person

Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
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I was looking at my two dogs the other day, and wondered, if we can breed such disparate types, (one is intelligent, friendly, fluffy, the other stupid, agressive and short haired), if there is any research going on into breeding intelligent apes.

A quick look at Mr Google doesn't reveal much.
 
a_unique_person said:
I was looking at my two dogs the other day, and wondered, if we can breed such disparate types, (one is intelligent, friendly, fluffy, the other stupid, agressive and short haired), if there is any research going on into breeding intelligent apes.

A quick look at Mr Google doesn't reveal much.

Well, there's you for a start.
 
The generations take too damn long for anybody to willingly spend time and effort into researching this.

If you are planning on doing experiments with unnatural selection in monkeys and apes then might I suggest that you do everyone that comes after you a favor and put all your selection effort into shortening the length of each generation?

This is sort of similar to a CompSci thought I was having the other day.. You might as well put off for a year and a half any program that will take 3 years or longer to execute. With Moores law in effect, both the person who starts now and the person who starts in a year and a half will finish at the same time.
 
Even if they could be made more intelligent via breeding, their uncanny resemblance to humans might cause some people to feel uneasy about using them as pets or working animals.
 
We do not know if apes (except homo sapiens) have the potential to develope intelligence beyond the point where they already are. We know that most types of great apes or their ancestors have coexisted with pre-hominids, in the same general habitats. So the evolutionary pressure on them to evolve intelligence has probably been much the same as that of the hominids. Since they did not develope intelligence to nearly as high a level as hominids, it is possible that they do not have the genetic potential to do so, in which case you would be waiting for the right mutation to come along.

About Moores law: I don't think it applies to breeding living creatures. Last time I looked, a woman still needed 9 months to have a baby ;).


Hans
 
Radrook said:
. . .their uncanny resemblance to humans might cause some people to feel uneasy about using them as pets or working animals.


Well, if they were as intelligent as Humans then I would think they would deserve the same rights and as such wouldn't be used as pets or working animals. On the other hand we haven't been too sqeamish about enslaving our own species.


If you wanted to make 'em more intelligent, directly tinkering with their genetic code is a much better option than only cross-breeding. Granted we don't know a whole lot about the chimp genome, but getting right into the mechanics and learning it would still be faster than waiting for desired mutations, and then breeding them into your selected population. Many generations could go by without what you want showing up.


The Uplift stories by David Brin deal with this somewhat as in these stories genetic modification for sentience is how pretty much all the existing species came about. In the uplift universe there really aren't any intelligent species that weren't created by another species that was created by another all the way back into prehistory.
 
Re: Re: Breeding Intelligent Apes

a_unique_person said:
I was looking at my two dogs the other day, and wondered, if we can breed such disparate types, (one is intelligent, friendly, fluffy, the other stupid, agressive and short haired), if there is any research going on into breeding intelligent apes.

LucyR said:
Well, there's you for a start.
Yes but how successful was this experiment? :D
 
I came across an article that pinpointed a mutation back in our ancestory that allowed our intelligence to grow as it has. It was the same type that causes schizophrenia and such when too many of the mutations are passed onto the offspring. It's okay to have one or two of the genes, but 3 resulted in mental illness.

This is just going off of memory, so will have to google to check my facts...will try to see if I have time now.

This mutation may be used to breed monkeys...I'm just assuming, but why would you want to? Imagine having your brain, and thus yourself, stuck in an ape body. It would be maddenly frustrating.

Afterall, we were walking upright before we started getting so intelligent.


Here we go,

upright walking, speech and consciousness is due to an explosion in the profusion and richness of the fat-rich connections between the nerve cells of the brain. This crucial development not merely produced brains of enormously enhanced power, it made us human. But, insists Horrobin, it also gave mankind the condition that we know as schizophrenia.

Found Here

It's a citation, and doesn't include what Horrobin was saying about the prevalence of the mutated genes (how many you have to get schizophrenia rather than just the intelligence/creativity). Would explain the prevalance of schizophrenia in families though, especially families like Einstein's (his son had schizophrenia).

The book review says Horrobin falls short in his explanations. I can see where. I'm still trying to find the proof that x amount of y genes gets schizophrenia, and x- 1 or 2 of y genes results in intelligence without the schizophrenia.

Am I chasing after something that isn't quite there yet? I could have sworn I read it before. Ah well.
 
Makes sense to me. I have met some schizophrenics, and they weren't stupid people, just people who couldn't stay focused on the one thought, or whose thoughts would wander off on too many tangents at once. This was very distressing for them.

I don't think I want intelligent pets, I was just wondering if some mad scientist somewhere was working on such a project with apes. There always seems to be someone who will work on this kind of thing somewhere.

I must admit, however, that seeing a working dog doing it's job is an impressive sight. My sister has just got here first guide dog, and loves the freedom to be able to just go for a walk again. She can rely on the dog to guide her across busy roads an not get killed.

Cattle and sheep dogs are also very impressive. They just love their work.
 
It's already happened... Cornelius and Dr. Zira went back to the 1970s where Zira gave birth to the future of all apekind.

Now how Gorillas become intelligent when Cornelius and Zira are clearly evolved chimpanzees... well... I leave that one to Hollywood.

Were there any other questions? :D
 
Intelligent apes, there already is a breed. It's spelled c-o-l-l-e-a-g-u-e-s except they missed out on the intelligence part, oh and the ability to socialise.
 

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