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Billionaire Bezos asks for public $$$

From the link:
The structure to operate a fund like this, which hundreds of companies do through the same third-party, requires the program to be open to public contributions but we are not soliciting those contributions in any way,” a spokesperson with Amazon told The Independent.
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It sounds like they're trying to comply with charity laws, not asking for handouts.

Here's the bigger scandal:
In 2018, the company reported an income of $11bn but paid $0 into federal taxes.
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Bob001 said:
From the link:


It sounds like they're trying to comply with charity laws, not asking for handouts.

Here's the bigger scandal:
In 2018, the company reported an income of $11bn but paid $0 into federal taxes.
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To know if its a scandal, we'd have to know the context....

- They had a multi-billion dollar income, but what were their expenses? What was their profit? If they were losing money, then a 0% tax rate doesn't seem that bad.

- Were there other extenuating circumstances (like massive charitable contributions, or large one-year write offs for capital costs?)

- Is this a one time thing, or do they always pay zero (or near zero) taxes?

- What do other companies in the same field pay in taxes?

- Are they complying with all federal laws, and avoiding any valid (but shady) loopholes?
 
I don't think there are many justifiable circumstances where you shouldn't have to pay any taxes at all on $11B.

The "do other companies pay, etc" is irrelevant to me. If they make that money, all of them should have to pay. If it has to start with Amazon, fine. They own half the ******* internet and I assure you they didn't take a loss in 2018.

Rationalizing them getting off with not paying taxes doesn't help, and I don't think your average American will feel better when told, "We know they made $11bn, but they did have a tough year (while making 11 bn?), and they don't always pay taxes, and other companies don't, and they were complying with the laws that have allowed them to do this for years."

I get what you're saying, that there are reasons this might happen. I won't argue with that, I'm saying that the public should say **** those reasons, close those loopholes and lets get these ass holes paying their due.
 
Segnosaur said:
To know if its a scandal, we'd have to know the context....

- They had a multi-billion dollar income, but what were their expenses? What was their profit? If they were losing money, then a 0% tax rate doesn't seem that bad.

- Were there other extenuating circumstances (like massive charitable contributions, or large one-year write offs for capital costs?)

- Is this a one time thing, or do they always pay zero (or near zero) taxes?

- What do other companies in the same field pay in taxes?

- Are they complying with all federal laws, and avoiding any valid (but shady) loopholes?
Click to expand...


The article used the wrong word. That $11 billion is profit, not gross income. The U.S. corporate tax code is so packed with deductions, credits and other loopholes that Amazon isn't the only corporation paying less in income taxes than the average teacher or cop.

Profits for online retail behemoth Amazon soared in 2018, but it paid no federal income tax for the second consecutive year, according to a report published Wednesday.

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy says the company is subject to a 21 percent tax rate on its U.S. income. However, through various tax breaks and credits, the company will receive a tax rebate of $129 million.
That's despite the company nearly doubling its profits to $11.2 billion in 2018, up from $5.6 billion the previous year, ITEP reported.
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...18-federal-income-tax-report-says/2886639002/


In 2018, Amazon paid $0 in U.S. federal income tax on more than $11 billion in profits before taxes. It also received a $129 million tax rebate from the federal government.

Amazon’s low tax bill mainly stemmed from the Republican tax cuts of 2017, carryforward losses from years when the company was not profitable, tax credits for massive investments in R&D and stock-based employee compensation.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/03/why-amazon-paid-no-federal-income-tax.html


Nearly 100 Fortune 500 companies effectively paid no federal taxes in 2018, according to a new report.

The study by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a left-leaning think tank, covers the first year following passage of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act championed by President Donald Trump, which was signed into law in December 2017.

The report covers 379 companies from the Fortune list that were profitable in 2018 and finds that 91 paid an effective federal tax rate of 0% or less. Those companies come from a wide range of industries and include the likes of Amazon, Starbucks and Chevron.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/16/these-91-fortune-500-companies-didnt-pay-federal-taxes-in-2018.html
 
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Segnosaur said:
To know if its a scandal, we'd have to know the context....



- They had a multi-billion dollar income, but what were their expenses? What was their profit? If they were losing money, then a 0% tax rate doesn't seem that bad.



- Were there other extenuating circumstances (like massive charitable contributions, or large one-year write offs for capital costs?)



- Is this a one time thing, or do they always pay zero (or near zero) taxes?



- What do other companies in the same field pay in taxes?



- Are they complying with all federal laws, and avoiding any valid (but shady) loopholes?
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Thanks in part to this type of tax relief the likes of Amazon have been able to bankrupt many competitors by running at a loss for many years. Often those competitors couldn't afford to run at a loss or borrow the cash needed to compete with a loss making company.

When you look at many of these "disruptors" they managed to disrupt the market in a very old fashioned way, i.e. make huge losses by undercutting and running at a loss.
 
But surely with this tax relief Amazon has ensured that its workers get payed more than average, have solid contracts and good vacations, access to the best healthcare and no contracts will be severed during this crisis?
 
Garbage person; if I let my rage flow, I actually hate him more than Trump. Immoral, horrible scum.

One of two people I've thought would be neat to have ship off from the virus.

I've said for a while now, if I ever see him in person, I'm going to spit in his face and tell him to pay his workers more. (It would be: "Pay your employees!!" and then spit. I'm a good spit shot, it will be a great moment.) A friend saw him dining out once and I am so looking forward to seeing him myself. A fine reason to be arrested.
 
Darat said:
Thanks in part to this type of tax relief the likes of Amazon have been able to bankrupt many competitors by running at a loss for many years. Often those competitors couldn't afford to run at a loss or borrow the cash needed to compete with a loss making company.

When you look at many of these "disruptors" they managed to disrupt the market in a very old fashioned way, i.e. make huge losses by undercutting and running at a loss.
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If you ever read The Everything Store, which is the semi-unofficial history of Amazon, you'd see how much Bezos loved Walmart's model of business. Undercut your competitors until they go out of business and force your vendors into indentured servitude.
 
plague311 said:
I don't think there are many justifiable circumstances where you shouldn't have to pay any taxes at all on $11B.

The "do other companies pay, etc" is irrelevant to me. If they make that money, all of them should have to pay. If it has to start with Amazon, fine. They own half the ******* internet and I assure you they didn't take a loss in 2018.

Rationalizing them getting off with not paying taxes doesn't help, and I don't think your average American will feel better when told, "We know they made $11bn, but they did have a tough year (while making 11 bn?), and they don't always pay taxes, and other companies don't, and they were complying with the laws that have allowed them to do this for years."

I get what you're saying, that there are reasons this might happen. I won't argue with that, I'm saying that the public should say **** those reasons, close those loopholes and lets get these ass holes paying their due.
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thats some good commie logic there
 
MoeFaux said:
Garbage person; if I let my rage flow, I actually hate him more than Trump. Immoral, horrible scum.
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That's certainly a lot of vitriol directed at Besos.

I'm a little bit more Ambivalent. I recognize that he is a rather successful (and perhaps ruthless) businessman. But, lets look at his record a little bit more;

- Yes, there are complaints about the treatment of employees. But Amazon employees a large workforce of semi- or non-skilled workers. In any sort of situation like that you are likely to get complaints.

- Outside of his work with Amazon, Bezos has purchased the Washington Post (Overall, I think that's a good thing... he's providing stable ownership at the time when the newspaper market is shrinking, and appears to be taking a hands-off approach to the business), and founded Blue origin (a company trying to do private space flights... which I think is a good thing, now that NASA no longer provides manned space flights.)

- He has donated (or pledged to donate) millioins/billions of dollars to 1) support freedom of the press, 2) combat homelessness, 3) provide schooling to undocumented immigrants, 4) address climate change

- while he has donated to various republicans, he has also donated to Democratic politicians

- politically he supports same-sex marriage, as well as more open immigration policies.

Does that mean he's a great guy and some paragon of virtue? No... Amazon didn't increase their worker wages until under pressure, and they are eager to use whatever tax loopholes they can. But there is nothing there to suggest Amazon is doing anything worse than many other companies.
 
plague311 said:
I get what you're saying, that there are reasons this might happen.
I won't argue with that, I'm saying that the public should say **** those reasons,
close those loopholes and lets get these ass holes paying their due.
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How do you feel about a 23% national sales tax?
 
Segnosaur said:
But there is nothing there to suggest Amazon is doing anything worse than many other companies.
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This shows that the problem is with the more laissez-fair capitalism that Trumpublicans want so much to become even more unregulated.
 
I think however you feel about the way Bezos got his billions and however legitimate or illegitimate you feel the whole Amazon business is, in these times, it seems shabby that Bezos cannot put more support toward his own labor force. Let us not forget what a billion is. A billion is a thousand million. A person with a hundred billion dollars could give away 99 billion dollars and still stuff the remainder in his mattress and spend two million dollars a year for the likely rest of his life. Bezos is said to have 135 billion. He could give a hundred billion to his workers and stick the rest in his mattress and still spend 500 million dollars a year for the next 70 years. Some of us might consider that that's enough to keep the wolf from the door.

I don't care how Bezos got his wealth, or whether he was a good guy when he got it. But he could certainly be a better guy now.
 
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