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Be Open Minded? Just Shut Up!

Phil

Master Satyr
P
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
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I've grown weary of being asked by true believers to remain open minded.

I don't mind so much if I have indeed slipped away from my normal open minded self, and it is a legitimate request. But often the person making the request doesn't really want me to remain open minded.

When some people make that request, they don't want me to be open minded. What they actually want is for me to share their opinion.

And I suppose that's understandable. After all, it's comforting when a lot of people think like we do.

But if I were to be open minded the way they want me to be open minded, I would have to stop considering all aspects of any issue. I would have to stop examining all possible explanations for any phenomenon. I would have to disregard evidence that is contrary to my pet conclusion. I would in fact have to behave in a more closed minded fashion.

How the hell did the meaning of the phrase "open minded" become distorted to actually mean "close minded"?

I tell people all the time that a good skeptic is the most open minded person they will ever encounter. A good skeptic is willing to be shown that any belief system, should they have them, is incorrect. A good skeptic is open to any new information and will re-assess his or her entire worldview based on that, if the situation so dictates. There is no way to be more open minded than that.

The true believers, however, the ones always requesting that I remain open minded, are way less willing to do anything of the sort. In my experience, they are decidedly close minded. Yet they are the ones constantly asking me to remain open minded.

I am so effing weary of that request.
 
"Be More Open Minded" roughly translates into "I choose to ignore evidence"

In other words, "be open minded to what I say, but close your mind to anything that contradicts it."
 
I am with you Phil. I think we all encounter this far too often and I don't know if there is anything we can do about it, except to say straight out to people when they ask you to have an open mind, that you expect them to do the same and listen to your views, too.
 
Phil said:
How the hell did the meaning of the phrase "open minded" become distorted to actually mean "close minded"?
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About the same time that "literally" came to mean "figuratively".
 
Kochanski said:
I am with you Phil. I think we all encounter this far too often and I don't know if there is anything we can do about it, except to say straight out to people when they ask you to have an open mind, that you expect them to do the same and listen to your views, too.
Click to expand...

I do. But I find it usually doesn't matter.

The most maddening aspect of this entire issue is when I try to show them how they are actually demonstrating closed minded behavior. In return, I'm usually only met with the dull stare of a dairy cow.
 
I believe they mean open-minded in the sense that you are so open minded your brains fall out and you then you believe anything.
 
Great post. I will do my best to remember that rant, deliver it on radio shows, to friends, and family members.

Also got my vote.

On a side note, I, as a bears fan, nominated to have Starman's pic destroyed.
 
You will find may people who confuse "faith" with fact. The refuse to reason and sadly never will. Thinking is hard work, it's much easier to allow your belief that something is true to dominate your opinion than to look at other alternatives.

I made the big leap from believer, (although I was raised an atheist) God and UFOs and psychics crept; in and I started believe all the nonsense out there. Life was so much simpler then. Evidence was what ever anyone said, and anything was possible.

Then I started questioning things which started the road to skepticism. Its really not the easy way to go.
 
SRW said:
You will find may people who confuse "faith" with fact. The refuse to reason and sadly never will. Thinking is hard work, it's much easier to allow your belief that something is true to dominate your opinion than to look at other alternatives. . . . .
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Oh, I know. And I ignore a lot the sounds coming out of their mouths for this very reason. But there are some things I'm just not willing to let slide.

It's one thing for me to point out the inconsistencies in a person's belief or claim and then have them refuse to understand it. After all, believers most likely have a lot invested, whether it be a lifetime of emotions or a lot of money. I can almost understand thick-headedness in such cases.

But it's something else entirely to refuse to adhere to the accepted meanings of words and phrases, or worse, to completely flip-flop those meanings and then refuse to own up to it when someone points it out.

To them I say, hold tight your irrational beliefs if you wish, but don't think you're going to co-opt our language to shore up your house of cards.
 
Well,

Traditionally, open-minded meant you were willing to listen to and consider all sides of an issue. In other words, you weren't hide-bound.

However, today most people have replaced "consider" with "accept". They believe open-minded means you should accept all viewpoints as equally valid. And, quite frankly, they aren't.

I can see how the confusion arose, consdiering the general populace's immunity to subtlety and nuance in word meanings (literally being a perfect example, or the whole irregardless thing, the meaning of theory, etc).
 
Phil said:
I do. But I find it usually doesn't matter.

The most maddening aspect of this entire issue is when I try to show them how they are actually demonstrating closed minded behavior. In return, I'm usually only met with the dull stare of a dairy cow.
Click to expand...

Been there.

I've even tried to keep it simple by asking a single question:
"Can you think of any evidence that could convince you that your belief is incorrect?"

Result?
Dairy cow.
 
Phil said:
How the hell did the meaning of the phrase "open minded" become distorted to actually mean "close minded"?
Click to expand...

In the same way that the phrase "It's all good" really means "It sucks and you suck too." We have a knack for passive-aggressiveness these days.

Phil, I'm curious as to where you live and what circles you run in. I seldom have your problem in my little liberal corner of the world.
 
Gravy said:
. . . Phil, I'm curious as to where you live and what circles you run in. I seldom have your problem in my little liberal corner of the world.
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Well, I live in Texas, but I rarely run in circles. It makes me dizzy.

Actually, I don't think liberal or conservative has anything to do with the number of believers (except for in the religious arena of course). And it's not that I encounter this every single day. It just chaps me when it does occur, because it usually marks the end of what otherwise might be a good discussion.
 
Key question is,

open minded to what they believe?

or open minded to change our point of view to where evidence leads?
 
Huntsman said:
However, today most people have replaced "consider" with "accept". They believe open-minded means you should accept all viewpoints as equally valid.
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No, it's clear that they don't consider all opinions valid. For starters, your opinion that their opinion is idiotic is not acceptable.

It's one of my things to look for in internet discussion. Some topic comes up, someone presents their loopy, unsupported position. Others come in with a pile of evidence that rips the loopy position to threads. The one with the loopy position proclaims that they are being treated unfairly, and that they are entitled to state their position. "This IS a discussion board, isn't it?"

Of course, the implication here is that they are allowed to post THEIR opinion, but others are not allowed to post a contrary opinion.

"I'm entitled to my opinion and you can't criticize it" is the last defense of a person who has no basis for it.

It's about as interesting as discussing a favorite color. Which isn't really a discussion, but just a list of statements.

"I like red."
"Oh really? I like green."
"Mauve fan, here."
 
I always want to reply, "I am open minded. I've heard what you have to say, I've heard what others have to say and I have decided the evidence does not support your claims but supports the opposing position." but what comes out is usually something like "I think you're crazy."
 
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