Banning Incandescent Light Bulbs?

[therival58]

Have we really lost all logic and reason?

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Australia has committed to a mandatory phase-out of incandescents by 2010. Ontario has moved to ban conventional incandescent bulbs and other inefficient lighting technologies by 2012.

And get this

While homeowners and businesses in that province won't be penalized for continuing to use the older bulbs, it will become illegal for retailers to sell them.

I've heard that's what they want to do here in the US. Are they nuts? Making it a crime to produce incandescent light bulbs while forcibly accepting "environmentally friendly" bulbs filled with mercury?

http://deq.mt.gov/Recycle/Real_Question.mcpx

While offering tremendous environmental advantages through energy savings, the disposal of used fluorescent lighting raises some serious environmental concerns.

Ok we get it the bulbs are super earth friendly but don't make it a crime to produce.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

If you think there is a ban on incandescent lightbulbs, then yes.


The law passed by Congress and signed by Bush in 2007, among many other things, set energy efficiency standards for *some*-- not all --standard size and type light bulbs. The energy inefficient standard size bulbs that don't fall into one of many categories of exceptions will be phased out from 2012 to 2014.

However, the law is not a ban on incandescents. It's not even a ban on standard size incandescents. It's not even a ban on standard size incandescents that don't fall into one of the exemption categories since energy efficient incandescents that satisfy the law are already on the market.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

You edited your first post after I responded to it without indicating the changes.

At any rate, you are mischaracterizing the "Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007" and its regulation of light bulbs.

Here's the text:
http://energy.senate.gov/public/_files/getdoc1.pdf

Basically, it will gradually phase out standard size, color, etc., inefficient light bulbs from 2012 to 2014. We already have several energy efficient alternatives in place. CFLs, for example, aren't just a little bit more efficient. They're waaaay more energy efficient.

However, passing of this law 4 years ago has prodded the industry into developing and marketing a more efficient incandescent bulb already. More R & D has gone on in the past couple of years than in the past couple of decades.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Making it a crime to produce incandescent light bulbs while forcibly accepting "environmentally friendly" bulbs filled with mercury?

Did you even bother to read the snopes article you linked to? There are very tiny amounts of mercury in CFLs (basically, don't eat the lightbulbs!), but I promise you they are far more "environmentally friendly" than burning the equivalent amount of coal it would take to power energy inefficient lightbulbs.

Also, as I mentioned in my first post, nothing about the law mandates the use of a particular technology. It basically sets energy efficiency standards. Most people I talk to think eventually we'll have good LED bulbs, but for now CFLs seem to be the best choice. There are very new energy efficient incandescents (though not as efficient as CFLs) already available and for sale at Home Depot and Amazon. (And the developer says there is already another version about twice as efficient that might be on the market soon.) I don't say this because I think they're a good solution, but merely to prove that characterizing the law as a ban on incandescents is inaccurate.

 

[geni]

People still want to get their light from heated tungsten strips? Why? Do they also use knives made from flint?

 

[mhaze]

Have we really lost all logic and reason?

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp



And get this



I've heard that's what they want to do here in the US. Are they nuts? Making it a crime to produce incandescent light bulbs while forcibly accepting "environmentally friendly" bulbs filled with mercury?

http://deq.mt.gov/Recycle/Real_Question.mcpx


Ok we get it the bulbs are super earth friendly but don't make it a crime to produce.

Yes, they are nuts. The THEY is people with the well know neurosis, Liberal Authoritarian Controller Personality Disorder.

Fortunately, unrelated to this crap ban on incandescent written in snarky legalese so that people like Joe can pontificate on it not being a ban on incandescent bulbs, in the meantime and without any help from Washington, LED bulbs are getting very, very nice.

So our future likely does not include ridiculous compact flourescent bulbs, even though the lobby that helped push that law through would like you to be forced to buy them.

Because the free market and innovation leapfrogged over ponderous slow thinking and dim witted legislators in league with fanatical environmentalists and CFL lobbying money.

But the short story is, yes, some people are nuts. And I've got quite a stash of nice 90 and 150 watt edison base incadescents.

 

[geni]

But the short story is, yes, some people are nuts. And I've got quite a stash of nice 90 and 150 watt edison base incadescents.

Why? Do you want to keep them along with a collection of valves or something?

 

[mhaze]

Why? Do you want to keep them along with a collection of valves or something?

Because I have locations which were engineered for these type bulbs, and for which I'm going to continue using them. Pretty simple, really.

Lumens, coverage, access, replacement method, dimming mechanisms, fixture style.

You know? Them details? Darn them details, they just ruin those one-size-fits-all plans by simple minded fanatics.

 

[geni]

Because I have locations which were engineered for these type bulbs, and for which I'm going to continue using them. Pretty simple, really.

And I've got software designed to operate off a floppy disk. Doesn't mean I'm stocking up on disks or drives.

 

[Minadin]

There are several properties of incandescent lamps that are superior, in some instances, to the other options, as Mhaze mentioned. Dimming is a major one in my view; also the color temperature.

It's one thing to try to promote energy efficiency, and I'm actually a big fan of that, but to do it by excluding other options is not the way to go.

 

[mhaze]

And I've got software designed to operate off a floppy disk. Doesn't mean I'm stocking up on disks or drives.

Not if you know how to run the floppy disk image off of a hard drive, and not if you can recreate the required operating system and peripheral environment.

So what does that have to do with a physical light fixture installation and the preferred bulbs for it?

Nothing....well, at least that I can see....

 

[geni]

So what does that have to do with a physical light fixture installation and the preferred bulbs for it?

Nothing....well, at least that I can see....

I assume there are people in existance who know how to modify physical light fixtures.

 

[Minadin]

And Mhaze is right about LED's, too. It seems like they are getting better and better, every time they come out with something new.

CFL's have their problems, but they are still appropriate in some installations - like when you're going to have a light that's often left on for long periods.

You can't dim them (well, you sorta can with the new ones, but not really), you can't turn them on and off without shortening their life drastically, the quality of light is relatively poor, and you can't throw them out without treating them as hazardous. Do you guys know what a ballast is? Or why it needs to be built into a CFL?

LED's are going to take over the high-efficiency lighting market, as far as I can tell. They're expensive at the moment, but they'll get cheaper. They almost never need replacing - the ones I installed in my dad's cabin will last longer than he will; some of them may outlast me.

 

[Minadin]

I assume there are people in existance who know how to modify physical light fixtures.

You can replace fixtures. It might be possible to modify some of them. Then there is the question of what sort of voltage the building's using. A commercial building isn't wired like your residence. You can't just stick any fixture from the hardware store in there and expect it to work.

 

[Ziggurat]

People still want to get their light from heated tungsten strips? Why? Do they also use knives made from flint?

Would you make it illegal to do so?

It doesn't matter exactly why some people prefer incandescent bulbs, the fact is that they do. There is no need to ban such bulbs. It's stupid nanny-statism, for very small gains.

 

[geni]

You can replace fixtures. It might be possible to modify some of them. Then there is the question of what sort of voltage the building's using. A commercial building isn't wired like your residence. You can't just stick any fixture from the hardware store in there and expect it to work.

Commercial buildings I'm aware of all use flourecent striplights of some type anyway. Well unless you include nightclubs.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

There are still incandescents at the local stores in Oregon. Of course, I still by CFLs for now because for only a slight increase in price they tend to last longer. If I had dimmer set ups I would buy incandescents, but generally I just buy low wattage CFLs since I rarely want a stronger light.

 

[mhaze]

I assume there are people in existance who know how to modify physical light fixtures.

Sure, or how to replace or modify. But you have to look at the essential question:

WHY?

I don't have any sort of weird moral imperative to use only CFLs, and I assume you don't either. So I just did the rational thing.

So if I determine that incandescent is best for an application, you don't REALLY want to argue with me do you?



Because .... I've got all the facts on my exact circumstances, and thus you must argue against that, a one-size-fits-all perspective is best.

And that's in a microcosm, the nature of this whole issue.

 

[mhaze]

....
LED's are going to take over the high-efficiency lighting market, as far as ....most never need replacing - the ones I installed in my dad's cabin will last longer than he will; some of them may outlast me.

This stuff is really, ultra, uber cool. Yet to be discovered by most people.

Maybe it'll be the sort of thing where the old people stick with their CFLs, and all the kids go with LED.

That'd be hilarious.

 

[Minadin]

Commercial buildings I'm aware of all use flourecent striplights of some type anyway. Well unless you include nightclubs.

What are you thinking of, in terms of buildings? Strip malls and office buildings? Those typically have a rather high line voltage compared to your home. And the lighting quality is rather poor. AND you can't just put a CFL in place of a fluorescent tube fixture.

I'm getting the idea that you're not real familiar with lighting.