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Avery and Bermas Don't believe their own theories.

Quad4_72

AI-EE-YAH!
Quad4_72
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
6,354
I am starting to think that maybe these two don't actually believe the lies that they are spewing out. It seems like it is a good possibility that maybe these guys are just in it for the money. Thoughts?
 
I think they believed it at first. Not sure about now after seeing them debating Gravy.
 
The Doc said:
I think they believed it at first. Not sure about now after seeing them debating Gravy.
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Or the numerous 9/11 debunking sites, or my "video" exposing their ignorance (lol, left hand islam)
 
I generally give people the benefit of the doubt - I think Avery and Bermas are stupid, but honestly believe they're right.

So, they're either nutters or tossers.
 
It can be hard to tell. Its just that some of the lies and deceptions in Loose Change are so blatantly incorrect that you KNOW they put them in there just for the sake of propelling the conspiracy. Like the 160 billion in gold in the towers "rumor". Where did he even get that from? He probably just made it up. It leads me to believe that he doesn't believe a lot of other things as well...
 
MarkyX said:
Or the numerous 9/11 debunking sites, or my "video" exposing their ignorance (lol, left hand islam)
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Of course.

I didn't phrase my sentence properly :( lol. I meant "Their reactions in the debate against Gravy would indicate to me that they no longer believe it."
 
It's why their next movie is taking so long. They don't know what to do. Instead of the movement getting stronger, it's fragmenting. Embarrassing itself.

Expect Avery to become more like Griffin. Avery is watching how the adults do it, and he'll pattern himself accordingly. He's learning that when you do woo, vagueness is your ally. Don't get specific. Don't personally accuse anyone (lawsuit territory). The problem is that he doesn't have the education or the title or the other agendas to push that Griffin has. Avery's notoriety is based on the point-blank accusations made in Loose Change. Now he's on video, trashing his own work. He really does not know what to do now. What kind of a film can he make?

Bermas is in it strictly for the fame and the notoriety - he has much less of a conscience about what he is claiming. Publicly it doesn't bother him. If he has any part of a conscience left, it should bother him privately.
 
ConspiRaider said:
It's why their next movie is taking so long. They don't know what to do. Instead of the movement getting stronger, it's fragmenting. Embarrassing itself.

Expect Avery to become more like Griffin. Avery is watching how the adults do it, and he'll pattern himself accordingly. He's learning that when you do woo, vagueness is your ally. Don't get specific. Don't personally accuse anyone (lawsuit territory). The problem is that he doesn't have the education or the title or the other agendas to push that Griffin has. Avery's notoriety is based on the point-blank accusations made in Loose Change. Now he's on video, trashing his own work. He really does not know what to do now. What kind of a film can he make?

Bermas is in it strictly for the fame and the notoriety - he has much less of a conscience about what he is claiming. Publicly it doesn't bother him. If he has any part of a conscience left, it should bother him privately.
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Bermas: Avery, whats a conscience?
Avery: Oh thats that thing you ignore so you don't feel bad lying to people in order to make money.
Bermas:OH. Ok so I don't have to worry about it then?
Avery: No. Just ignore it.
 
In my opinion, Avery (& to a lesser extent, Bermas) isn't purposely lying about 9/11. He just doesn't have the critical thinking skills to dismiss each and every claim all the twoofers have made. To twoofers such as he, quantity is quality. Take, for example, Killtown's 250+ "smoking guns".
I believe he's heading for a fall - he's blinded by being bukkaked with stupid, like many.
 
Believing in conspiracy and unintendedly spread misinformation is one thing, but realizing that one was wrong and still continuing to make money out of it would be just disgusting.

Maybe the big surprise is LC:FC in which they expose their lifes as truther and debunk all of their previously made claims with the help of scientists and express an Apology to all people they have fooled into their believes and to all people they acused of beeing mass murders, disinfo agents or anything else. And this will make it to the cinemas...

Well, this probably won't be the case...
 
Disinfo Agent said:
Believing in conspiracy and unintendedly spread misinformation is one thing, but realizing that one was wrong and still continuing to make money out of it would be just disgusting.

Maybe the big surprise is LC:FC in which they expose their lifes as truther and debunk all of their previously made claims with the help of scientists and express an Apology to all people they have fooled into their believes and to all people they acused of beeing mass murders, disinfo agents or anything else. And this will make it to the cinemas...

Well, this probably won't be the case...
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Nice post. I agree. :)

That sounds a bit like what I proposed in my thread How Dylan Avery could become a decent film-maker. That he would adopt my suggestions seems unlikely, but no-one can predict the future completely accurately.

Though I do notice Dylan has veered towards 9/11 fantasy lite (referencing Press for Truth) lately.
 
Dylan's too caught up in his own BS to actually admit he's wrong. He's showing signs of weakness, like during the Hardfire debate. It became solely obvious to me that he's too deep in when he said "nothing" to the 'what would falsify your beliefs' question posed by our own Ronald. Why did he say nothing? Because anything he says we could probably produce and he would either have to accept it, give up etc, or deny that it is counter evidence.

Other things to think - all his mates are CT'ers - does we want to lose all his mates? no.
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My thoughts on this that I posted in another thread.
 
disinfo agent said:
Believing in conspiracy and unintendedly spread misinformation is one thing, but realizing that one was wrong and still continuing to make money out of it would be just disgusting.
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I think this is exactly how it all happened. When making their first film, Avery and Bermas trawled the conspiracy websites for their information. They believed it all, the missile pod, Karl Schwarz's A3 Skywarrior, no phone calls from the planes. They sucked it all in. Their film was an internet success, they gained an adoring fanbase and, most of all, the money rolled in. Eventually, they are hit by a wall of debunking and now they know they are wrong. They do not have the moral fibre to admit they are wrong and, most of all, they're enjoying the celebrity and money too much to stop.

Of course, LC:FC will not be an apology but, as Orphia stated, it will be 9/11 conspiracy lite. Much of the rubbish in the previous version will be removed.
 
I feel they're in it for the money. If I mention money on the JREF forum, or in the confrontational e-mails I sent him after getting banned, nothing seemed more offensive to him than me saying that he was in it for the money. He seemed very determined to 'defend' the fact that he isn't in it for the money. Just look at my signature to understand!
 
The Silver Shadow said:
I feel they're in it for the money. If I mention money on the JREF forum, or in the confrontational e-mails I sent him after getting banned, nothing seemed more offensive to him than me saying that he was in it for the money. He seemed very determined to 'defend' the fact that he isn't in it for the money. Just look at my signature to understand!
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Yeah it seems to be a touchy issue. "ITS MY FILM. U R MAKE ME BIG FIRE MAD".

Someone should go and post "Hey Dylan, didn't you mean a B-25?" :D
 
The way I see it, Bermas still believes everything because he wants to believe. He loves to spout off all kind of little tidbits and give the impression that he knows more than his peers. Doesn't Bermas believe in a litany of other conspircies, too? I think there is no hope for Bermas, he's a young Alex Jones.

Dylan on the other hand appears to know exactly what's going on. Although I believe he was a troother originally, I think he is now looking more at the business end of things. The money's coming in. The potential for a real film. The constant debunking of his ridiculous claims. The microscope he is now under.

And that's where he is becomming frustrated. He can't have Bermas running around accusing firefighters (and outright lying) and he can't have Rowe making ridiculous statements (such as the "errors intentionally left in" statement).

So Dylan acts as a wrangler. He keeps Bermas and Rowe on a short leash, even stepping into the Gravy debate instead of Rowe - saying very little except correcting Bermas and admitting that his little video has flaws.

I think that if Dylan was given the opportunity to direct a real (non 9/11 movie), he would be the first person to cut all ties to the movment to work on a real career. Bermas, on the other hand, will still be screaming "inside job" and telling experts "you're wrong" for years to come.
 
It's my opinion that they still believe in their basic conclusion, that 9-11 was an inside job, although they seem to realize that a lot of the evidence they thought they had is illusory. Even if they get to the point where they recognize that it really was 19 pissed-off Muslim hijackers, they'll switch over to the CIA/ISI thing. The goalposts can always move.

Remember, they did not reach their conclusion by starting with the evidence and seeing where it led. They started with the conclusion and looked for the evidence that fit. If some evidence has to be thrown out, the conclusion does not change.
 
They are in it for the money and that is all. Avery wants to throw his film school rejections in the schools face. Bermas the compulsive lier he is will be the fall guy for Avery. Avery hides in the background and cleans up anything that may impinge box office sales which is why he hates Gravy. Dylan by his own admission started out planning to make a fictional movie. when his "researchers" thought they were getting evidence of a real conspiracy he let them off their leash. It would only make them work harder for him (for free). He wasn't about to dispel their beliefs. anyone who would help his project he would use. I came to this realization during the hard fire debate. Dylan wanted to deflect the focus off of him and his film and on to projects by others. If you line up all the CTers you will find that most if not all have a book, a radio show, a film, or an Agenda to promote. it is nothing more than that. Only the peons of their movement are true believers in CT.
 
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