Atheists: do you "pray"? or continue religious rituals?

[maddog]

I know this may seem like a stupid question, but I'm quite curious.

I now call myself a "Catholic Atheist" (to those among whom I am "out" as an atheist, which is another matter altogether), because, to paraphrase the common saying, "you can take the boy out of the church, but you can't take the church out of the boy" -- the Catholic church is still "my people" or "my tribe", so to speak. I still find great value in many of the things the church does, and particularly in some of the rituals.

I'm thinking particularly of two: Baptism and "saying grace" before meals. Okay, so, if I don't believe in God, why did my sons get baptised? Well, there are a variety of reasons, but one that I found important is the ritual aspect of it -- baptism is the ritual of welcoming the new baby into the community. Community meaning all our family and friends, and naturally many or most of them are also Catholic.

And for meals, saying grace is like the ritual beginning of the meal, a moment to appreciate the togetherness of the family or friends who are gathered.

I dunno... These rituals still work for me, but I'm struggling a bit with the specific words that get used. So... what do you do? What works for you? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Bikewer]

I attend such rituals (marriage, baptisms, etc) that are important to my friends and family. I don't "participate"...

Praying seems utterly pointless, though frequent and prolonged cursing has it's own joys...

 

[Denver]

Just out of curiosity, did your ritualizations re-emerge for you once you had your own family, after being in remission for a while?

A "falling away" while growing up, and then returning to religious practices once a person has children of their own, is a very common phenomenon. I suppose there are different reasons for it, though a couple seem to be to insure a known morality framework is presented to the child, and also to let the child know about god 'just in case'...

 

[maddog]

Just out of curiosity, did your ritualizations re-emerge for you once you had your own family, after being in remission for a while?

No, I was almost always very active in my church. It was how I was raised and such -- like I said, "my tribe", complete with all the rituals and such that I was always comfortable with. As I grew up and learned more and more, I had an ever growing set of questions and inconsistencies to figure out and contend with. The hard part was blending the belonging with the beliefs - these are my people, but I disagree about x, y, and z. Now, it's "these are still my people, but NOT my beliefs".

Still, it was working with and through the church that led me to look beyond the church for answers, that led me to atheism, so I very much respect the church for helping me to grow - even when that growth was away from the church. I realize this is not a universally positive experience, but for me it was.

 

[Denver]

... As I grew up and learned more and more, I had an ever growing set of questions and inconsistencies to figure out and contend with. The hard part was blending the belonging with the beliefs - these are my people, but I disagree about x, y, and z. Now, it's "these are still my people, but NOT my beliefs".

That's also a common pattern and key point: the theology people learn as a child eventually collides with their growth into their age of reason. It's at this point that several directions seem to be possible (barring intellectual laziness or rebelling for the sake of rebelling): ignore the age of reason and protect the theology you already have; toss the theology and walk in the ways of your maturing reason; use the new perspectives from your maturing reason to reexamine the theology, and let your understanding grow from there, whatever that leads to.

Still, it was working with and through the church that led me to look beyond the church for answers, that led me to atheism, so I very much respect the church for helping me to grow - even when that growth was away from the church. I realize this is not a universally positive experience, but for me it was.

Sounds like you're on that third path... I tend to think that is the most honest one to take.

 

[PrincessIneffabelle]

Being an atheist, I lack belief in anything that requires (or even just hears) prayers. I can wish for stuff, talk to myself, and meditate all I want -- no gods or spirits needed. I understand that other people may take their assorted prayers quite seriously, especially during certain rituals, but I respectfully and unobtrusively refrain.

Social reinforcement through the practice of rituals is just a little too tribal for my tastes. My husband and I got legally married mostly for property/income/benefits reasons. We had a short informal secular wedding 18+ years ago. When my son was born, my Methodist mom wanted to have him baptized (in the church that she never actually attends). I said that it was fine with me, as long as we didn't have to make any specific religious promises. Stuff like that is way overrated IMO, but I get that other people really dig it. Different strokes and all that.

That being said, we do like to celebrate happy events, be they large or small. We just don't require specific words, symbolic actions, or hallowed ground (unless you consider Olive Garden or Mimi's to be Holy Places!).

 

[Hokulele]

I don't pray, but I will be quiet and behave myself if others are doing so in a formal setting (weddings, etc.). If I am at someone's house or out to a restaurant with someone who says grace, I will quietly wait until they are finished before grabbing food. If I am eating with a group of Japanese people in a semi-formal setting, I will say "Itadakimasu" with them ("Let's eat!").

 

[slingblade]

No, I don't pray. I try to stay away from even wishful thinking.


I will attend weddings and funerals in churches, but I respectfully (as much as possible) don't participate in the religious stuff. If they call for a prayer, I quietly stand there, and wait.

I don't make a thing out of my atheism, but I won't lie about it if asked, unless the person asking could harm me in some way, like firing me from a job. Then I'll lie, and big-time. Now. I learned that one the hardest way.

 

[Piscivore]

If I'm playing a game or something and I want a particular randomized result to go a certain way I wll repeat it in my head to "make it happen"- does that count?

"C'mon, roll a six, six, six six sixsixsix. Big Money, no whammys!"

 

[Third Eye Open]

I don't pray. I remember when I first realized there was no gods, I would find myself doing it just out of habit, things like 'c'mon god, let me make it to work on time!" I would correct myself, and now, my inner monologue is not with some super being but with myself, such as 'C'mon! We can make it to work on time!'
Still the same mental pleading, but no belief that it actually has any effect on the outcome.

At social gatherings, such as Christmas dinner, I will hold hands with family members and bow my head and say 'amen' when it is done. Thankfully my family knows enough to not ever ask me to lead the prayer, I don't know what I would say if I did! Probably something like "Thanks to Dad for working so hard to buy us this food, and thanks Mom for cooking it up so deliciously! Thanks everyone else for being here!" With no mention of a god.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Sometimes I say to myself things like "please work" or "please don't be late". I direct them at nothing in particular, and I know they have no effect, but it helps me feel better there and then. I sometimes cross my fingers, too, for the same reason.

 

[TraneWreck]

I have very close family friends who are Jewish. Every Friday I go eat dinner at their house, I put on a beanie, and sing their songs with them. I don't believe anything about their religion (and to be honest, neither do they), but it is a nice practice that brings family and friends together on a regular basis.

I really don't understand the consternation people experience when dealing with atheists. I don't appreciate being forced to pray or observe silly religious practices (which happened a great deal during my athletic career), but that coercion is completely different from voluntary ritual.

But by definition, no atheist can actually pray themselves, but they can be polite while people pray around them. Or they can point out the futility of the practice when necessary. It's just another balancing of social graces, no different from political discourse.

 

[Hokulele]

If I'm playing a game or something and I want a particular randomized result to go a certain way I wll repeat it in my head to "make it happen"- does that count?

"C'mon, roll a six, six, six six sixsixsix. Big Money, no whammys!"

That's not praying, that is using the Law of Attraction.

 

[Piscivore]

That's not praying, that is using the Law of Attraction.

In terms of effectiveness and reason, what's the difference?

 

[Third Eye Open]

Sometimes I say to myself things like "please work" or "please don't be late". I direct them at nothing in particular, and I know they have no effect, but it helps me feel better there and then. I sometimes cross my fingers, too, for the same reason.

Yes, I think the reason that this makes us feel better is the origin of religions.

We live in a chaotic and unpredictable world. In the past it was even more unpredictable, because we had no idea what caused things such as storms droughts or famine.

Praying, or doing a magic ritual, gives the person doing it a sense of control over the chaotic world they are in. A feeling that they are doing something to affect it. So when the storm ends, the man praying or the witch doctor dancing can say "I did that. I had an effect on the world I live in." A very powerful and comforting feeling.

 

[Hokulele]

In terms of effectiveness and reason, what's the difference?

Which group of people will point and laugh at you.

 

[cwalner]

If I'm playing a game or something and I want a particular randomized result to go a certain way I wll repeat it in my head to "make it happen"- does that count?

"C'mon, roll a six, six, six six sixsixsix. Big Money, no whammys!"

Ha!. Reminds of a joke a Blackjack dealer told me. What is the difference between people praying in church and people praying in a casino? In the casino, they actually mean it.

 

[SusanB-M1]

I voted for 'No, but I understand the appreciation of ritual'. Have you found out about Humanist Celebrants? I certainly do not pray; even when I still had some vague idea that there was some, even vaguer, idea that there was a God there I did not pray because to think of said God listening or having any effect made no sense at all.

I feel quite strongly however that ritual and order are natural and necessary for our species. Maybe, by the time this century is into its second half, there will be a Humanist organisation which encompasses ritual while being clear about the illogicality of God.

 

[Tamazon]

I don't make a thing out of my atheism, but I won't lie about it if asked, unless the person asking could harm me in some way, like firing me from a job. Then I'll lie, and big-time. Now. I learned that one the hardest way.

You got fired for being an atheist? Wouldn't that be some form of religious persecution? Why do religious groups get to cry foul when they are discriminated against but atheists do not? Did you fight it?

 

[Dave_46]

<snip>
I will attend weddings and funerals in churches, but I respectfully (as much as possible) don't participate in the religious stuff. If they call for a prayer, I quietly stand there, and wait.
<snip>

Me too. Mrs Dave is Christian, I am non religious. We respect each others views.

I was at the service for my uncles funeral a couple of weeks ago, and I find that the singing of Abide With Me still affects me emotionally. I can't understand it, but it does.

Dave