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Assistance Required - New Jersey WTC Collapse Footage

The Doc

Curing Stupidity
The Doc
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
2,158
Hey guys :)

In the film 9/11 Mysteries we are shown footage from New Jersey that supposedly picks up a massive explosion before the tower falls. This can be seen at the 33:35 minute mark in 9/11 Mysteries.

Does any one have the original footage from this angle? Being a sound engineer I strongly suspect that this explosion noise is dubbed over but I can't prove it without the original footage.

Any critical analysis from the 33:35 mark of this film to the 35 minute mark is greatly appreciated! Also noting the "camera shake" at the 33:55 mark.

Issues raised:
Rising smoke from the bases - pre collapse
Large sound (possibly overdubbed) supposedly picked up from NJ
Shaking Camera 9 seconds before WTC1 collapse

This is the only part of the film I think needs further analysis for "Screw 9/11 Mysteries" and I'd be glad to accept any advice that can be offered :)

Sources
9/11 Mysteries
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=911+mysteries#0h33m35s

Thanks!
 
Awesome :D

Thanks for your input. I'll chuck 'Bell - JREF' in the "Thanks to" section.
 
You mean you won't be doing a "thanks to ....Killtown, AFP & BBC" end credit?

:D
 
Lol Dave :P

Actually what's funny about 9/11 Mysteries (kind of off-topic) is in the very opening intro he says "Ask yourself why you haven't seen it on TV". Which is rather Ironic because they spend half the movie showing cuts from TV doco's ;)
 
Odd how that huge "explosion" is heard in Hoboken, but not at the WTC where it supposedly happened. Other sound engineers here have surmised that it's wind noise, but AFAIK no technical analysis has been done.
 
Nice points Gravy :)

The main thing that got me thinking was the quality of this "explosion". Considering the distance and the fact that a camera mic (which are worse than pro mic's) picked this up doesn't amount to the high quality that the sound is produced at.
 
The footage comes from the movie 9-11 Eyewitness by Rick Siegel.
 
Hi,

I've seen original footage of this shot, and there are no explosions. They have been added.

In addition, as Gravy points out, we have footage that covers the same period of time from not only directly beneath the WTC, but actually INSIDE it. No explosions.

I thought the fire was from the parking lot?

The camera shakes can be explained by any myriad of things. People just like to throw them in there as "proof" which is laughable. It indicates they have very little understanding of how cameras and tripods work.

Even a pretty solid earthquake only produces a meagre camera shake, and even less so if the camera is at the top of a building (as the camera moves WITH the building).

They like to post a shot of the WTC taken from inside another building where there is a camera shake. But as you can see, the building the camera is in doesn't shake, only the camera does. Which means the force causing the camera shake is only acting on the tripod, not the building.

Which (obviously) means someone bumped the tripod or camera.

-Gumboot
 
Gravy said:
Odd how that huge "explosion" is heard in Hoboken, but not at the WTC where it supposedly happened. Other sound engineers here have surmised that it's wind noise, but AFAIK no technical analysis has been done.
Click to expand...
one thing i foudn amusing was that in the 9/11 eyewitness video seigel says people in new york did in fact report the explosion, but their statements were dismissed due to lack of video evidence, which seems odd sicne every camera in manahattan was trained on the WTC, and particularly odd since seigel himself had video evidence

why he didnt come forward at the time seems to relate to the fact that hes selling his video for 20 dollars
 
Bell said:
Yes, but the fire in the NYPD photo is coming from the lobby of the South Tower. So what's burning there? Are there any accounts of this?
Click to expand...

It isn't. It's coming from a parking lot. With cars in it.

I have seen a video of these burning cars but I can no longer find it on youtube.
 
I watched the segment doctorfungo was talking about and it can be disregarded simply from the chronology of events.

Hoboken is 2 miles away from the WTC, so one must factor in the speed of sound which would mean a delay of 10 seconds. In the video, the puffs of smoke appear at the same time(actually the explosion is heard slightly before the smoke rises) as the "explosion" sound. If it were an explosion at the base, you'd see the smoke puffs and hear the explosion 10 seconds later, not slighty before, simple.

They also cut a segment of video from when the "explosions" happened to the collapse. How much time elapses between the 2 events? 10 seconds? 10 minutes? an hour?
 
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gumboot said:
They like to post a shot of the WTC taken from inside another building where there is a camera shake. But as you can see, the building the camera is in doesn't shake, only the camera does. Which means the force causing the camera shake is only acting on the tripod, not the building.

Which (obviously) means someone bumped the tripod or camera.

-Gumboot
Click to expand...

Gum, I've seen independent movies of that shaking, did you notice that simultaneously with the shaking a piece of debris falls rom the buiding ?

Ýou say the building the camera is in doesn't shake, how can you conclude that.

The wish is the father of your thoughts...
 
apathoid said:
I watched the segment doctorfungo was talking about and it can be disregarded simply from the chronology of events.

Hoboken is 2 miles away from the WTC, so one must factor in the speed of sound which would mean a delay of 10 seconds. In the video, the puffs of smoke appear at the same time(actually the explosion is heard slightly before the smoke rises) as the "explosion" sound. If it were an explosion at the base, you'd see the smoke puffs and hear the explosion 10 seconds later, not slighty before, simple.

They also cut a segment of video from when the "explosions" happened to the collapse. How much time elapses between the 2 events? 10 seconds? 10 minutes? an hour?
Click to expand...

I have , on many occasions, asked CT's that bring this up what makes them so sure that the sound does not emanate from the nearby shoreline such as the sound of a larger ship bumping a wharf nearby.

Not suprisingly I get no response.
 
apathoid said:
Hoboken is 2 miles away from the WTC, so one must factor in the speed of sound which would mean a delay of 10 seconds. In the video, the puffs of smoke appear at the same time(actually the explosion is heard slightly before the smoke rises) as the "explosion" sound.
Click to expand...


That's probably just misleading editing. In a full uninterrupted version of the footage the smoke is clearly visible for quite some time before the "explosions" (Which, again, I will emphasise, are NOT on the original footage).

Other footage from around the WTC confirms the smoke coming from the parking lot west of the WTC.

-Gumboot
 
einsteen said:
Gum, I've seen independent movies of that shaking, did you notice that simultaneously with the shaking a piece of debris falls rom the buiding ?
Click to expand...


Yes. So what?


einsteen said:
Ýou say the building the camera is in doesn't shake, how can you conclude that.
Click to expand...

Because the piece of footage most commonly used by CTers is actually a cut in of the original footage. In the original, the frame of the window being filmed out of is visible. The window frame moves in relation to the camera frame, which means the camera is moving and the building isn't. (Or alternatively the camera is suspended in mid air and it is stationary but the building is moving).

-Gumboot
 
jaydeehess said:
I have , on many occasions, asked CT's that bring this up what makes them so sure that the sound does not emanate from the nearby shoreline such as the sound of a larger ship bumping a wharf nearby.

Not suprisingly I get no response.
Click to expand...

It sounded to me more like wind moving across an unshielded mike, which woudn't be surprising on a pier in Hoboken.
 
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