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Antiscience fiction

SixSixSix

Critical Thinker
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
456
I'm a science fiction fan. I'm a fantasy fan as well, and don't ever ask me to pick which I prefer - it depends entirely on what mood I am in. Kiless and my bookshelves are filled to overflowing with everything from Asimov to Zelazny, with a side stop at Pratchett, Rowling, and so on and so forth.

I've never really been sure whether I'm "supposed" to like fantasy, though. As a committed skeptic, I have a feeling that some people might argue I should view "The Goblet of Fire" with distaste, condemning it as promoting belief in a magical world. Whereas in fact my actual attitude is more along the lines of "it's not that I can't appreciate magic - it's just that I know the difference between fact and fiction". And it seems that the Amazing One himself (according to a recent radio interview that was linked to on SWIFT) is a Harry Potter fan, so I'm not alone.

(Bear with me, I'll get to a point soon).

I really don't watch a lot of television. Now that Mythbusters is finished for the year, and BS season 4 is (hopefully?) still being made, I'm basically just playing Sims 2 instead of watching TV. The exception is the show Smallville.

It occurred to me the other day that Smallville and Harry Potter have something in common - they are, to coin a new genre, "antiscience fiction".

Isn't that just a weird way of saying they're fantasy?

Well, no. Most fantasy is not antiscience fiction. Take David Eddings "Sparhawk" series (the Elenium and the Tamuli). That is a highly magical world, yet at one key point the crossbow is recognised as something that has the power to change the face of modern warfare. In Amber, Brand's attempt to use magic to conquer the highly magical Amber fails, whereas Corwin's attempt to do so using automatic weapons does not. It is possible to argue that Tolkien is antiscience fiction, if you accept the whole orc thing as an invasion of technology and the death of the elves as an end to magic (which is a valid interpretation of the text, I concede).

Antiscience fiction is characterised by a disregard for science or even hostility towards it. Since I mentioned Harry Potter and Smallville, I'll use those as examples.

Spoiler free summary of Smallville for those unfamiliar with the show: it's basically about Clark Kent in his pre-Superman years, documenting his discovery of his powers and how he learns to be the Man of Steel he will eventually become.

Anyway, Clark (in the tradition of all superheroes everywhere) doesn't openly use his powers. The reason for this is not "Well, if I did then the bad guys would kidnap my Mum" or even "If I did then every idiot that loses his keys would be after me to use my Xray vision to find them", but rather "If I do then some scientist will cut me open in a lab somewhere".

Alright, what the hell? It is possibly true that somewhere there is a scientist that would prefer to use kryptonite laced surgical implements to vivisect a live, peaceful, humanoid alien - but the concept of such a being is far harder to swallow than the concept of Kal-el in the first place. All people can be vaguely classified in one of three ways: they are either moral (in which case Clark is clearly a good guy, and keeping him alive is a good thing), immoral (in which case you want to use Clark to steal stuff, kill your enemies, and so forth) or amoral (in which case the selfish thing to do is keep him alive purely because you can learn more from a living specimen than a dead one).

It doesn't end there, though. Scientists on Smallville are virtually never shown in a positive light. We see a paranormal researcher who uses his psychic patients to kill and steal for him, various scientists prepared to perform experiments with "meteor rocks" on humans, and then there are all of the guys working for LuthorCorp. To all intents and purposes, if there is a scientist on the show, he's either the villain or working for the villain.

With Harry Potter it is in some ways more blatant and in other ways more subtle. It is blatant in the sense of the various derogatory terms used to refer to the non-wizard world - "muggles", "mudbloods", and so forth. All wizards are superior to non-wizards - even the "good guys" portray a fairly condescending attitude to their ungifted counterparts.

The subtlety is conveyed in such phrases as Harry's "I love magic" (no non-magical tent is "that cool" - Goblet of Fire, opening sequence, if you're wondering what I'm referring to) and the use of primitive technology (quills rather than ball point pens; steam trains to get to Hogwartz, candles for lighting, and so on). I've read all the books, and I do not recall anywhere where it was pointed out that ballpoint pens wouldn't work in Hogwartz. I suppose if you are of a mind to be sympathetic you could argue that if they had a generator or were connected to the power grid for electricity, that occasionally they would need servicing by "muggles" - but that cannot excuse not letting the students use Bics or Kilometricos.

At the end of the day - I'm not suggesting that the writers of Smallville or J K Rowling are pursuing any sort of neo-Luddite agenda here. I just thought it was interesting - and ironic, perhaps, in the sense that it is after all technology (inextricably wed to science) that allows so many people to view these shows that essentially indict the very medium that permits their existence. I'm wondering whether this trend is seen elsewhere in modern cinema and television - as pointed out above, I really don't watch a lot of TV, and the movie scene this year has been a bit sparse.
 
Check out Michael Crichton for some very deceptive anti-science fiction. Jurassic Park (both the book and the movie) is one big tirade against science; mostly coming from Ian Malcolm. Of course, Crichton has to butcher the concepts of science and the scientific method in order to make his point, but when has that ever stopped anyone?
 
I'm pretty sure it was Harlan Ellison who noted the shortest possible science-fiction story; "There are things that man was not meant to know..."

This has been a recurring theme since Frankenstein, I suppose.
 
I am an avid science fiction reader and I have no problem with good fantasy. I do not consider it anti-science in any way. Harry Potter likes magic because it is cool and works well for him. I think the quill pens and such are there because they give a better feel to Hogwarts. BTW, I am not a big fan of Harry Potter. It is an above series but nothing special.

Anti-science fiction has a long history. The mad scientist is a cliche e.g. Frankenstein movies. This generally does not bother me too much either. I am not familar with Smallville. Superman has always seemed pretty stupid to me.

I do not mind ESP, TK and the paranormal in science fiction stories. Bester, Dick and many others created great books with paranormal themes. It is absurd but it is not meant to be serious. I also found X-Files to be a great TV show despite its paranormal crap.

What bothers me are the attempts to put scientific footing behind the paranormal or ones that misuse science as a plot device. There was one book which "showed" god existed via aliens spouting the anthropic principle which changed a harden skeptical scientist into a believer. There was another book with time travel and proto-humans that distorted evolution as a plot device. I cannot remember the title but I thought the book was great until the last 20 pages.

CBL
 
When I saw the title of this thread I thought it would be about religion, the ultimate anti-science fiction.

We watch Smallville too, and I feel like it's OK to go along with the obvious conflicts with the laws of physics because it is only fiction, and it is offered as such. I let the silliness prevail while watching Smallville under the willing suspension of disbelief principle.That does prevent the occasional groan or verbal complaint when a particularly egregious violation occurs.

In other realms of human endeavor, where the fiction is offered as fact and used to campaign against my civil rights, I find myself less willing to be a member of the audience.
 
I like both fantasy and science fiction. I think the anti-science aspects of Harry Potter and similar might be there for a couple of innocuous reasons:

a) To make his world charming, quaint, and dissimilar from our own mundane reality. Yeah, science is great, and we'd hate to not have it. But fantasy is escapist literature, for the most part.

b) Plot reasons. It would be too difficult to explain why Voldemort, unable to break past Dumbledore's magical defenses of Hogwarts, doesn't just level the place with an atom bomb, or give Draco Malfoy some anthrax to spread around. Technology makes everything too easy. Which, ironically, is the argument that can be made about magic. (Anybody else notice the massive gaping ridiculousness of the Veritaserum? If you have an infallible method for getting the truth out of people, how the heck can you not know who your enemies are? Make everyone drink it and declare their allegiance. I think that's the perfect example of the problem of making something too powerful in a book, whether it's a technology or magic. George RR Martin once said that's why he'll never use gods as characters. It requires too much explanation for why there are still obstacles.)
 
I like both fantasy and science fiction. I think the anti-science aspects of Harry Potter and similar might be there for a couple of innocuous reasons:

In Harry Potter, it doesn't seem to me that it's so much antiscience, as that many of the non-muggles just don't seem to grok science, or the muggle world in general. In the magical world, there does seem to be some experimentation, at least, though I haven't seen any actual theories presented.

But the thing is that if you can magically animate newspapers, you might not see the point in an iPod.

ETA: For some real antiscience fiction, see Bakshi's Wizards. The thing that bugged me about that is that it used some reasonably clever technological techniques to bash technology. I mean, if you make your own paints by grinding pigments and mixing them with linseed oil that you've squeezed yourself out of flax, that's one thing.
 
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Some "consumers" of genre stuff get awfully stratified as well. I remember being in a bookstore that had an extensive sci-fi section and getting into a discussion with several other fans. I mentioned Harlan Ellison, and one fellow said (with a bit of a sneer...) "I don't read SOFT science-fiction".

Hehe, probably doesn't read the comics either.

I dig it all, as long as it's well done. Hard stuff like Niven and Benford, cyberpunk, (Gibson is still a favorite) wonderful prosey stuff like Vance and Wolfe, lyrical stuff like Bradbury....All grist for the mill.
And I'm a great fan of fantasy too; Tolkien, Eddison, Lieber, Anderson...

The "good doctor" Asimov was not afraid to publish non-genre stories in his excellent magazine, maintaining that a good story was worth publishing.
 
What bothers me are the attempts to put scientific footing behind the paranormal or ones that misuse science as a plot device. There was one book which "showed" god existed via aliens spouting the anthropic principle which changed a harden skeptical scientist into a believer. There was another book with time travel and proto-humans that distorted evolution as a plot device. I cannot remember the title but I thought the book was great until the last 20 pages.

CBL

It looks like you're talking about Calculating God and the Hominid Trilogy. Both were written by Robert Sawyer.

Marc
 
Anyone read the Night's Dawn trilogy? That was a curious example. I was really enjoying the first book, up until the book it became obvious that yes, there really were dead people possessing the living - no, it wasn't some trick. That was pretty disappointing.

I did read the other two books, though - and I came to accept that it was an OK story. I have no real objections - certainly I can't think of an easy way to "rewrite" it such that it becomes scientifically plausible and still maintain the same plot.

Michael Crichton is a good example. I confess I've only seen Jurassic Park the movie rather than read the book, but I did find the nonsense that the chaotician character was spouting to be mildly offensive.

The thing is, antiscience fiction isn't necessarily bad or even ideologically unsound - I realise I gave that impression above, but that's not necessarily the case. Cautionary tales like "gray goo" stories, or post apocalyptic fiction, are certainly valid and interesting science fiction (Zelazny's Damnation Alley is a favourite) as well as being somewhat "antiscience fiction" in the sense that they do show the effects of technology gone wrong. But the best examples of this genre do not blame science; instead they correctly ascribe the blame to individual people that misuse technology. Smallville basically expects the audience to accept its implicit assumption that scientists are inhumanly interested in knowledge at the expense of their humanity; Harry Potter assumes that in a world of wizards science is inferior and unnecessary - something for the muggles.

Though I hasten to point out that I watch Smallville even when the episodes are (as one poster put it above) "silly", and that I think Harry Potter is a pretty entertaining series (though by no means the best fantasy being currently written; in my opinion, George R R Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire" must take that title). And TragicMonkey is right - if the bad guy wizards were "allowed" to use technology, then anthrax or atomic weapons would quickly make all their magic pretty ineffective.

(And yes, I think the above statement is true. Even if there are spells that prevent atomic explosions, the wizards are still human and vulnerable to diseases - the magical healing doesn't look like the sort of thing it would be possible to mass produce to cure an epidemic, and there doesn't appear to be a way to bring back the dead - even Valdemort's abilities to keep coming back have now been documented in the latest book, and they are limited).
 
I take exception to your view of Harry Potter. Yes, a ballpoint would be better, but the point is to make the wizarding world both familiar and different. Hogwart's is a boarding school, but they use quills and parchment. Also, J.K. Rowling has made a point of showing that magic is not a cure all. There are things magic can't do and at one point they say that magic has a limited range. Plus, it's a children's story. It doesn't claim to be anything beyond that. The stories or movies that I have a problem with are those that try to demonstrate a moral or an affect in science only to be shown to be completely amoral or so far from science that it's all load of dingo's kidneys.
 
Check out Michael Crichton for some very deceptive anti-science fiction. Jurassic Park (both the book and the movie) is one big tirade against science; mostly coming from Ian Malcolm. Of course, Crichton has to butcher the concepts of science and the scientific method in order to make his point, but when has that ever stopped anyone?

Cripes, I thought I was the only one who saw that!

Jurassic Park was so very irritating. It was a fun read, but then he kept launching into this antiscience tirade that was awful, and wrong.

He says it's chaos theory that led to all the trouble, we humans shouldn't meddle with nature. But Nedry sabotages the system!

Don't even get me started on the steaming pile that was "Sphere".
 
I read Sphere. The book had a dues ex machina in the first chapter and it went downhill from there. In the end I was left going "huh?"
 
I guess I think that Harry Potter could still look "alien" without having to resort to (my opinion) silly neo-Luddite antiquated technology. If there are magic pens and pencils that do a better (or equivalent job), fine - let's see them; if they can't, though, then why use a quill and ink when you can use a ballpoint pen?

And if you absolutely must have a quill and ink for the "feel" of it, then what about some internal consistency? A throwaway line in The Philosopher's Stone about how modern technology interferes with the right magical frame of mind would be all it takes.

Mixing technology and magic seems to be all the rage in recent years - Anne McCaffery, J K Rowland, even Weis and Hickman have all done it. It's not necessarily bad. But if you're going to set your story in the modern world and have your magicians (some of whom grew up in that muggle world, let us not forget) just ignore the past few centuries of technological advancement without any explanation, then at least be ready to be criticised for it. :)

Man, I'm really coming across as anti-Harry here; nothing could be further from the truth. (Well, actually, some things could be; I mean, calling me a black lesbian with a penchant for chanting Hare Krishna would be further from the truth. But I digress).

Though for what it's worth I don't think Goblet of Fire was edited particularly well. If you end up with a movie with a PG rating that comes in at 2 1/2 hours long, you need to consider either cutting more or making two movies instead of one. I have some ideas on what could feasibly have been cut, but I will withhold here since I don't think I can do it in a "spoiler free" fashion.
 
Cripes, I thought I was the only one who saw that!

Jurassic Park was so very irritating. It was a fun read, but then he kept launching into this antiscience tirade that was awful, and wrong.

He says it's chaos theory that led to all the trouble, we humans shouldn't meddle with nature. But Nedry sabotages the system!

And the book shows that the corporation putting it together did make some pretty questionable decisions as to the park set-up (why didn't ALL of the cages have independent back-up power, among other things).
 
The idea that some things man is "not meant to know" goes back at least to the myth of Prometheus and the creation story in Genesis; the idea of science (or philosophy, as it was then known) a opposed to faith at least as far back as Sts. Tertullian, Ambrose, Jerome, and other fathers of the church, if not earlier.

Nothing new here...
 
I actually liked the NightsDawn trilogy. The possession concept was addressed nicely, and while the very ending was a little disappointing I don't see how it could have been improved (epics rarely seem to have well written endings).

The possession was addressed scientifically and eventually the explanation was well constructed without being overdone. In fact, the whole series was themed on humans trying to reconcile consciousness with science, if you think about it.

I do agree that the device of 'anti-science' is a common one. Harry Potter is kind of accidental in this, but there are a lot of stories that use the 'science is not to be trusted' device in an awfully cliche manner.

Athon
 
You want Antiscience fiction? How about "Star Wars"?

Think of the finale. They're bearing down on the Death Star, need to drop their bombs just so to blow the whole thing up. . . and they're relying on human reflexes to push a button at the right millisecond. And when that doesn't work, it's "Use the Force" time.

Hello? With all this high tech flying around, no one has bothered to invent some type of fire-control computer? Their scanners detect the target coming up, calculate the drop angle, release the bomb at excatly the right time, and the first fighter that gets through gets the job done. Who needs farm-boy Luke and the Force?
 

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