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Amanda Knox and the State Department

Samson

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I have no idea whether the State Department intervened to avoid hand to hand combat with the Italians when waiting for Knox to be exonerated.
1. The idea is generally ridiculed by those who started as nay sayers to her innocence. Furthermore, it is then proposed that this would make her more likely to be guilty if such intervention had been needed.
2. However, I hold the view that a smart culture like the American should never allow another culture like the Italian, to make a dog's breakfast of a simple case, and kidnap their citizen.
3. I understand the ISC created precedent with this last minute exoneration, and wonder why.
4. My conclusion is there was political interference at a high level to avoid profound embarrassment to the Italians, when the body of evidence showing what comprehensive errors were everywhere, was explained trans Atlantically by the American courts, in the inevitably doomed discussion of extradition.

Remember, respected members here like Machiavelli said many times the Italian government was bound to seek extradition if a guilty verdict was confirmed.

John Kerry said he would do his duty if required to comment. What duty was that to be?

I find this question some what more interesting than the pending motivation report.
 
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It was more likely Italian political pressure.
This State Department transcript from 2009 is an interesting read.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2009/dec/133266.htm

Here is an exerpt

QUESTION: A couple more things. First of all, you didn’t the answer question. Are the State Department lawyers going to take a review of the trial and make its own judgment whether or not due process was afforded according to Italian law in this case? And secondly, is your reluctance to say whether due process was afforded have anything to do with your presumption of Amanda Knox’s guilt?

MR. KELLY: Well, on that latter question, I --

QUESTION: Well, usually when there --

MR. KELLY: We have no presumption of her guilt.

QUESTION: You don’t think she was guilty?

MR. KELLY: Oh, man.

QUESTION: Well, usually when the --

MR. KELLY: Elise.

QUESTION: I’m sorry. Usually when there’s a case – there have been numerous cases of American citizens where you think that the trial was not fair and it was clearly a case in which the American citizen was not guilty. And I’ve heard you and other people --

MR. KELLY: Those are normally places where there isn’t a transparent judicial system. There is a fair, open, and transparent legal system in Italy. We’re not talking about a country where we have problems with their legal system. There – if there were irregularities with any case, in any court, anywhere, including in this country, there is an appeal process that’s set up to allow defense counsel to, in a court of law, before a jury of peers, to present what they feel were irregularities in that case. There will be that opportunity
 
So the idea is that they were released because it happened to suit people politically? I always did love an inconclusive ending. Terrible for the Kerchers, I suppose.
 
Do you think it desirable for one country to interfere with the legal process of another? So you want to set up a mandate for US citizens to commit very serious crimes abroad and not have to be brought to justice.
 
So the idea is that they were released because it happened to suit people politically? I always did love an inconclusive ending. Terrible for the Kerchers, I suppose.
The Kerchers are a family that repeatedly demanded Knox be jailed. All the information the state department got was available to them. The damage was self inflicted.
 
Do you think it desirable for one country to interfere with the legal process of another? So you want to set up a mandate for US citizens to commit very serious crimes abroad and not have to be brought to justice.
Vixen, there is much more than we have on the thread so far. Surely you realise this. I am hoping people will contribute what they know. This is a serious subject for justice everywhere. That interview was the media doing its job. If only they had the freedom in other countries, New Zealand comes to mind with a subservient media, woefully inept at publishing information that is true and uncomfortable for central government.
 
I have no idea whether the State Department intervened to avoid hand to hand combat with the Italians when waiting for Knox to be exonerated.
1. The idea is generally ridiculed by those who started as nay sayers to her innocence.
And, perhaps, also by some folks who believed Knox's conviction to be unsafe very early on.
2. However, I hold the view that a smart culture like the American should never allow another culture like the Italian, to make a dog's breakfast of a simple case, and kidnap their citizen.
Are you kidding? Do you really see this as some kind of competition between a smart American culture and another, presumably not so smart, Italian culture? If so, I would love to hear you explain it. And, not to put too fine a point on it, arrested and held pending trial is not the same as kidnapped - even if the accused is eventually acquitted. Not in Italy, not in the U.S., and not, I suspect, in N.Z.
3. I understand the ISC created precedent with this last minute exoneration, and wonder why.
What precedent? I have not followed the case very carefully and neither am I conversant in Italian law.
4. My conclusion is there was political interference at a high level to avoid profound embarrassment to the Italians, when the body of evidence showing what comprehensive errors were everywhere, was explained trans Atlantically by the American courts, in the inevitably doomed discussion of extradition.
Am I correct in inferring that your conclusion that the U.S. government put pressure on the Italian government to set aside Knox's conviction is based entirely on supposition and no evidence? If so, what is there to discuss? Certainly not the evidence...
Remember, respected members here like Machiavelli said many times the Italian government was bound to seek extradition if a guilty verdict was confirmed.
That is, of course, trivially obvious. Of course Italy would seek extradition if Knox's conviction was upheld. I would hope that such considerations would not be factors in the the ISC's decision.
 
Do you think it desirable for one country to interfere with the legal process of another? So you want to set up a mandate for US citizens to commit very serious crimes abroad and not have to be brought to justice.
Yes I do of course. The Indonesians are planning to shoot Mary Jane Veloso. She is innocent of intentional drug carrying for profit, and the Philipine government is intervening. There is one example, can you think of others? Should we attempt to intervene in Isis beheadings? These examples are necessary to sensibly discuss intermediate situations.
 
We can't have foreigners convicting our citizens of anything! Where will it end?
 
No. I consulted the mods, and the thread is deemed suitable for this new more inclusive sub forum.
Can you reproduce for us here the argument that convince the mods that the OP deals with a conspiracy or conspiracy theory?

All I'm seeing is idle speculation that there might have been some idle speculation that the State Department might have done something typically (and uninterestingly) State-Departmenty.

Not really a conspiracy or conspiracy theory, is it? Especially since you seem to explicitly disavow any intention of offering a theory of your own in the OP ("I have no idea if...").

As far as I can tell, this thread should absolutely be in Trials and Errors, ideally merged with the existing Noble Cause Thread.
 
Can you reproduce for us here the argument that convince the mods that the OP deals with a conspiracy or conspiracy theory?

All I'm seeing is idle speculation that there might have been some idle speculation that the State Department might have done something typically (and uninterestingly) State-Departmenty.

Not really a conspiracy or conspiracy theory, is it? Especially since you seem to explicitly disavow any intention of offering a theory of your own in the OP ("I have no idea if...").

As far as I can tell, this thread should absolutely be in Trials and Errors, ideally merged with the existing Noble Cause Thread.

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Can you reproduce for us here the argument that convince the mods that the OP deals with a conspiracy or conspiracy theory?

All I'm seeing is idle speculation that there might have been some idle speculation that the State Department might have done something typically (and uninterestingly) State-Departmenty.

Not really a conspiracy or conspiracy theory, is it? Especially since you seem to explicitly disavow any intention of offering a theory of your own in the OP ("I have no idea if...").

As far as I can tell, this thread should absolutely be in Trials and Errors, ideally merged with the existing Noble Cause Thread.
Well, it does smell a little like a conspiracy theory, in that it assumes that things are not as they seem and in that there is nothing but suspicion to support it. I am waiting for the "No Courters" to come forward and argue that there really is no such thing as a supreme court in Italy...
 

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