Alt med in the NHS

Asolepius

Graduate Poster
Asolepius
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
1,150
Presumably you folks are aware that all forms of quackery will now be available at taxpayer's expense in the UK. The woo-woo mafia comprising Blair, Prince Charles and Peter Hain have railroaded this through in total defiance of the evidence. There are 2 very good pressure groups - Healthwatch (www.healthwatch-uk.org) and Sense About Science (www.senseaboutscience.org.uk). They need our help.
 
Les Rose said:
Presumably you folks are aware that all forms of quackery will now be available at taxpayer's expense in the UK. The woo-woo mafia comprising Blair, Prince Charles and Peter Hain have railroaded this through in total defiance of the evidence. There are 2 very good pressure groups - Healthwatch (www.healthwatch-uk.org) and Sense About Science (www.senseaboutscience.org.uk). They need our help.
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Have you got a link to something explaining how access to NHS funded alt med is to be increased?
 
In an article from last year, explicit support for alternative treatments are desrcibed here http://shopping.guardian.co.uk/beauty/story/0,1587,1092802,00.html

Though it is clear that:
there is no endorsement for other non-orthodox treatments, such as acupuncture, yoga, herbal remedies or aromatherapy.
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More recently from the Torygraph http://money.telegraph.co.uk/news/m...09.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/09/ixnewstop.html

Booklets, funded by the Department of Health and produced by Prince of Wales's Foundation for Integrated Health, will be distributed to every GP surgery next month, describing a list of free therapies including osteopathy, acupuncture, aromatherapy and homoeopathy
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Is it just me, but the Telegraph seems to be very much pro and the Grauniad very much con.

And there's an NHS directory of alternative practitioners
http://www.nhsdirectory.org/
 
Re: Re: Alt med in the NHS

Benguin said:
Have you got a link to something explaining how access to NHS funded alt med is to be increased?
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The Don beat me to it! Blimey that was quick. I haven't had time to track down the official NHS news release but no doubt someone will tell me where it is.

Question: What is the matter with scientists? Why are the government Chief Scientist, and the Chief Medical Officer, not raising merry hell and threatening to resign over this? Perhaps they agree with it. Maybe they were even behind it?
 
Strikes me that use of NHS funds for this treatment could easily be ultra vires. I wonder how one goes about initiating a prosecution?
 
Well any prosecution will need money - the only consistent winners are the lawyers (and the judges). Are there any forum members with legal expertise? If we could draft a case we could present it to Healthwatch.
 
The Don said:
Is it just me, but the Telegraph seems to be very much pro and the Grauniad very much con.
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I don't think it's just you. Each week on Thursday, I read Ben Goldacre's column Bad Science at the Guardian web site. If you've never seen it, it's a heartwarming dose of level-headedness, and he is frequently bringing up topics that the Telegraph has brought up:
You think I'm making this up, but it's been in the Daily Telegraph, and innumerable other places. So it must be true.
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Some other gems from the archive:
"All molecules have an electrical charge and a vibrational energy. Therefore, all foods, which are made up of molecules, contain these vibrational charges. The colours of foods represent vibrational energies ... foods which are orange in colour ... have similar vibrational energies and even similar nutrient makeup." Many sci-fi authors like to write under pseudonyms, and Ms Gillian McKeith, you will remember, likes to write under the name "Dr Gillian McKeith PhD", on account of her non-accredited correspondence PhD. Blue foods are good for "urinary tract infections, kidney problems, fevers". Do medical doctors agree with colour food therapy, Gillian? "Generally medical doctors are not trained in this area." How narrow-minded.
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Her "PhD" course began in 1993. Linus Pauling died in 1994. "He was an incredible inspiration. I was working solidly, but studying for a doctorate is not all sitting in a classroom." Quite so. Although, of course, it didn't really involve sitting in a classroom at all.
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Or, if you're a gullible neo-luddite new age moron, science is the universal bad guy. Like in the new Kettle Chips four-page pullout advert. Strapline: "No Science. No Fiction. Real." Nice. "Our potatoes ... " they say, "one season they're planted, it rains a bit, then the next season we dig a few up to check they're ready before harvesting them. Not much science to that." From what I remember, I'd say the completely amazing story of how a little round potato grows, with water and carbon dioxide and sunlight, into a bushy four-foot green plant with loads more potatoes under the ground, is pretty much our core constituency.
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After our cream last week that kills "every known bacteria", the Daily Express reports that Kleenex is launching an antiviral wipe that can "check the spread of colds and flu", with chemicals on the middle layer of a three-ply tissue destroying "99.9% of the germs that lay millions low across the nation". Only 99.9% this time? "This is an incredible breakthrough," says Kleenex's spokesman, Dr Winkler Weinberg. "But," the Express warns, "some scientists fear it could weaken the immune system and trigger the growth of superbugs." Yikes! That certainly makes it sound jolly potent. Which scientists were they, the ones who keep giving each other colds by sharing disposable tissues covered in snot? Since most of us prefer to catch our colds from the air droplets out of coughs and sneezes, I don't think we need to be too worried about the Kleenex superbugs just yet.
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More by searching the archive.
 
Les Rose said:
Well any prosecution will need money - the only consistent winners are the lawyers (and the judges). Are there any forum members with legal expertise? If we could draft a case we could present it to Healthwatch.
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It's one of those things where you complain to the appropriate body, they investigate, and proceed if their is a case to answer.

It relates to legislation Thatch originally put in place to stop councils spending taxpayers money on international campaigns that had nothing to do with their raison d'etre. It was also used on unions for the same misdemeanour.

The meaning is 'outside power' and it says that charities and elected bodies must use funds for the purposes for which they were provided.

Spending NHS funds on programmes which do not provide any benefit to health, or demonstrate any experimental value would seem to be on the edge of that one ...
 
Update on NHS policy regarding the use of homoeopathy

I wrote to my MP, Valerie Davey - Labour MP for Bristol West, to get her to clarify the position regarding the use of Homoeopathy in the NHS.

I wasn't expecting a response but she's a pretty decent representative. The response from the Department of Health is summarised below:

The Government recognises that many people find complementary therapies such as homeopathy useful. In principle they are therefore available.

However it's up to Primary Care Trusts to prioritise treatments.

In June 20002 the DoH's Complementary Medicine Information Pack for Primary Care Groups commented that there was some evidence to suggest that homeopathy might help certain patients. It suggested in particular that the best evidence of its effectiveness was in relation to conditions that have as allergic element such as asthma, rhinitis and hayfever The Don - what ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ evidence ?

However the Centre for Reviews and Dissemination at the University of York concluded that the evidence is not conclusive enough to warrant a significant change in the current NHS provision of homeopathy.

They are also providing £1.3 million to support research into CAM including homeopathy.



This is a little disheartening.
 
It may be worth pointing out that herbal remedies are toxic
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/292/23/2868

Would the government like to face an enquiry or test case where the "medicines" they promote are shown to have dangerous levels of toxins which have huge implications for health and neurodevelopment?

Would Cherie Blair like to feed her kids with this stuff, Gummer-style?
 
Benguin said:
Strikes me that use of NHS funds for this treatment could easily be ultra vires. I wonder how one goes about initiating a prosecution?
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I've been thinking about this. Maybe the Audit Commission (http://www.audit-commission.gov.uk/) could be encouraged to look into this sort of thing. To quote from their website:

"We are an independent public body responsible for ensuring that public money is spent economically, efficiently, and effectively in the areas of local government, housing, health, criminal justice and fire and rescue services." (emphasis mine)
 
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