Alan Langdon and daughter Que

Off the top of my head, the currents run south and east across the Tasman. I thought the wind was mostly easterly too.

If he was headed for Queensland, as suggested in the article, he missed by a very long way.

Did he not have a radio?

Doesn't sound very accidental to me.
 
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He had an EPIRB but he is not sure where he stowed it. I guess it was too much trouble to look for it.

His story stinks.
 
Well hang on a minute.
This guy is a very good sailor. My hope is he can be finessed into folk hero. This story is for optimists, not hand wringers.
 
Samson said:
Well hang on a minute.
This guy is a very good sailor. My hope is he can be finessed into folk hero. This story is for optimists, not hand wringers.
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Surprise surprise. You've decided the outcome first before there has even been a conversation, and are trying to determine what sort of people can and can't comment. Why bother, Samson? No case you have ever involved yourself in has ever seen you even slightly nuance your original view. Why not try something different this time: set out your case with reasoned argument, and then counter points raised with fact rather than emotion.
 
MikeG said:
Surprise surprise. You've decided the outcome first before there has even been a conversation, and are trying to determine what sort of people can and can't comment. Why bother, Samson? No case you have ever involved yourself in has ever seen you even slightly nuance your original view. Why not try something different this time: set out your case with reasoned argument, and then counter points raised with fact rather than emotion.
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But Mike, what do you think? Surely it is too soon to define the discussion by what silly old Samson says.
I think it is an intriguing case, I really don't know what to think.
But since Que is narrating the tale of a lifetime for anyone, let alone an 8 year old, I hope we let the thread breathe a bit.
 
MikeG said:
Obviously it is Theresa May's fault that he ever set sail in the first place, and the old witch should be keel hauled.
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Yes well it probably is her fault. We are technically her dominion, but please Mike, what do you think???
good dad bad dad continuum.
It is true I am inflexible after making a conclusion in binary cases, but this is not that animal.
 
What with checking every yacht that leaves harbour everywhere in the Commonwealth, and with looking personally into every alleged miscarriage of justice ever imagined by anyone within the entire Commonwealth, she'll obviously have no time for trivia like extricating the UK from the EU and managing change in the NHS, let alone bringing in the social reform agenda she's outlined..
 
Samson said:
Yes well it probably is her fault. We are technically her dominion, but please Mike, what do you think???
good dad bad dad continuum.
It is true I am inflexible after making a conclusion in binary cases, but this is not that animal.
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Extremely bad dad. Firstly it does not seem to be the first time that the mother had to hire a child recovery service. Secondly, from the preparation and the boat it sound like utter irresponsibility to bring a child that young for such a travel.

IMO he should only in future have the daughter only under watch from social service, never alone.
 
Aepervius said:
Extremely bad dad. Firstly it does not seem to be the first time that the mother had to hire a child recovery service. Secondly, from the preparation and the boat it sound like utter irresponsibility to bring a child that young for such a travel.

IMO he should only in future have the daughter only under watch from social service, never alone.
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I'd go further. He has already demonstrated he has contempt for court access orders. The mother should have full custody.
 
lionking said:
I'd go further. He has already demonstrated he has contempt for court access orders. The mother should have full custody.
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I am a bit wary of full custody as my understand is that it allows the mother to refuse visitation at will. But I am not a lawyer and maybe I misunderstand the law.
 
MikeG said:
What with checking every yacht that leaves harbour everywhere in the Commonwealth, and with looking personally into every alleged miscarriage of justice ever imagined by anyone within the entire Commonwealth, she'll obviously have no time for trivia like extricating the UK from the EU and managing change in the NHS, let alone bringing in the social reform agenda she's outlined..
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Aepervius said:
Extremely bad dad. Firstly it does not seem to be the first time that the mother had to hire a child recovery service. Secondly, from the preparation and the boat it sound like utter irresponsibility to bring a child that young for such a travel.

IMO he should only in future have the daughter only under watch from social service, never alone.
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lionking said:
I'd go further. He has already demonstrated he has contempt for court access orders. The mother should have full custody.
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You are all authority disciples.
What emotional blackmail was he subject to?
Let us seek and find.
Please please let this thread be a hotbed of NUANCE
 
Samson said:
You are all authority disciples.
What emotional blackmail was he subject to?
Let us seek and find.
Please please let this thread be a hotbed of NUANCE
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And you continually get sucked in by people who insist they have done no wrong. Thankfully people with this mindset do not end up on juries.
 
lionking said:
And you continually get sucked in by people who insist they have done no wrong. Thankfully people with this mindset do not end up on juries.
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Oh ho ho LK.
You have no heart, but I know that is untrue.
This dude and Que are far more interesting than everyone else.
Please acknowledge greatness on your shores.

We need them back, your loss.
 
Samson said:
good dad bad dad continuum.
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As a dad myself, I would never pronounce a "good/bad" judgment on anyone's parenting skills without knowing vastly more than I do about this case. But I will say that if as claimed this was purely an accident, he was at best more that a little irresponsible for taking his young daughter out in an unfit vessel and being unable/unwilling to call for help the moment they got into trouble. He can partially compensate for this by returning her immediately to NZ, thus proving his actions had no ulterior motivation.

And if this was not an accident, he was very irresponsible for taking his daughter on such a voyage and risking her life, while keeping their family in suspense as to their whereabouts and safety. I can only imagine the horror of thinking your child may be lost at sea, and anyone who puts someone else through that is selfish and cruel.

In either case, I don't think there's anything "great" or "heroic" (folk or otherwise) about what he did.
 
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This article strengthens his story

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11782710

The obvious question is to ask what he had to gain by sailing to Australia.
He is an Australian citizen so that is a point.
Clearly analysis of weather at the times he quotes should be more or less conclusive. The Australian authorities seem to confirm he had one rudder, describing the boat as crippled.
A sailor on thread could help here, I am not a seafaring rat.
 
Samson said:
This article strengthens his story

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11782710

The obvious question is to ask what he had to gain by sailing to Australia.
He is an Australian citizen so that is a point.
Clearly analysis of weather at the times he quotes should be more or less conclusive. The Australian authorities seem to confirm he had one rudder, describing the boat as crippled.
A sailor on thread could help here, I am not a seafaring rat.
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I don't doubt that his boat lost a rudder. What concerns me is that he was at sea with his young daughter on a crippled boat and he did not use his EPIRB to seek help. That, IMHO, does not a hero dad make...
 
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Metullus said:
I don't doubt that his boat lost a rudder. What concerns me is that he was at sea with his young daughter on a crippled boat and he did not use his EPIRB to seek help. That, IMHO, does not a hero dad make...
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If his boat could handle the weather with on rudder, the EPIRB wouldn't be strictly necessary.

I'm a casual day sailor, and don't try to test my limits, but an experienced cruiser might think this is not strictly speaking an emergency. I'm certainly not one to judge his abilities our the seaworthiness of his boat on one rudder.
 
Metullus said:
I don't doubt that his boat lost a rudder. What concerns me is that he was at sea with his young daughter on a crippled boat and he did not use his EPIRB to seek help. That, IMHO, does not a hero dad make...
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Fair point.
But the core question remains, did he always plan to land in Australia where he is a citizen?
Did he calculate he would have a better custody argument for Que there?

If he genuinely planned to sail to Bay of Islands, has he committed an offence at all?
Was he devoid of communication devices, or if he had them was he legally obliged to use them?
These are to me interesting questions.
 
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