Aircraft versus Steel

[AZCat]

I was aimlessly browsing the internet when I happened upon the following image:

This is a photograph of the USS Hinsdale, after it was hit by a kamikaze attack on April 1st, 1945 (wiki entry for Hinsdale).

The attack is described as follows:

With only a few seconds warning, Hinsdale just above the could not evade the kamikaze; at 0600 the suicide plane crashed into her port side water line and ripped into the engine room. Three explosions rocked the troop-laden transport as the kamikaze's bombs exploded deep inside her and tore the engine room apart— only one member of the watch survived death by scalding steam from the exploding boilers.

Power failed immediately—lights and internal communication, so vital to damage control parties, were gone. Hinsdale came to a dead stop in the water, with three gaping holes in her port side. Marines on deck who had been ready to disembark were hastily shifted to the starboard rails to counteract a serious list to port. Below decks Hinsdale's crew were groping through the smoke-filled darkness to fight fires started by the kamikaze and to jury-rig patches. Fifteen men were dead; 40 missing or wounded. Despite the injury Hinsdale carried out her job to put the marines ashore.

What I find interesting is that, despite the aluminum construction of the aircraft, it managed to penetrate the double-layer steel hull of the ship. Neither the bombs nor the aircraft frame bounced off the exterior (although it appears that the wings may not have completely penetrated). I am surprised that this photo has not popped up before, since it seems relevant to the discussion of the aircraft impacts into the WTC towers.

Anyway, I thought I'd start a thread to see if anyone else had any other information about the incident. Other photos or narratives would be nice, if they exist.

 

[timhau]

That's a good find. It should also be remembered that in building their WW2 aircraft, the Japanese went for maneuverability instead of durability and built their aircraft very light.

 

[AZCat]

That's a good find. It should also be remembered that in building their WW2 aircraft, the Japanese went for maneuverability instead of durability and built their aircraft very light.

I wish I could find out what type of aircraft this was. It appears from the photograph that the aircraft might have been twin-engined, but it's hard to tell without dimensions. Twin-engined aircraft such as the Mitsubishi Ki-67, according to the wiki entry for kamikazi, were used in kamikaze attacks on Allied forces during the Battle of Okinawa.

 

[gumboot]

Another good example would be the USS Enterprise. On May 14th, 1945 a Mitsubishi A6M Zero hit the deck of the Enterprise and smashed through six decks (including the 1.5 inch armour main deck) before exploding with enough force to send the forward elevator 400ft skyward.

-Gumboot

 

[AZCat]

Another good example would be the USS Enterprise. On May 14th, 1945 a Mitsubishi A6M Zero hit the deck of the Enterprise and smashed through six decks (including the 1.5 inch armour main deck) before exploding with enough force to send the forward elevator 400ft skyward.

-Gumboot

Excellent point, gumboot. Now that I think about it, there are probably quite a few cases from kamikazi attacks in WWII that are relevant to the argument. I was just struck by the superficial similarity between the hole left by the kamikaze in the side of the vessel and those left by the aircraft on September 11th in the sides of the towers.

 

[leftysergeant]

The last time I worked day labor, I was dispatched to do fire watch on a fishing boat of the Trident Seafoods Company in Tacoma. I noticed a big patch over a five-foot long, one-inch wide gash on the bow of the boat on which I was working. When I asked the welder I was watching what the boat had hit to do that damage, he told me it was just a wave.

Doesn't really take much, I guess.

 

[einsteen]

Meep Meep, this should be forwarded to Morgan Reynolds...

 

[AZCat]

The last time I worked day labor, I was dispatched to do fire watch on a fishing boat of the Trident Seafoods Company in Tacoma. I noticed a big patch over a five-foot long, one-inch wide gash on the bow of the boat on which I was working. When I asked the welder I was watching what the boat had hit to do that damage, he told me it was just a wave.

Doesn't really take much, I guess.

"Just a wave."

Remind me why I don't like the water? Sure, the desert has its drawbacks, but it doesn't try to kill you (except for the scorpions, the 115 degree heat, cactus, snakes...).

 

[timhau]

I wish I could find out what type of aircraft this was. It appears from the photograph that the aircraft might have been twin-engined, but it's hard to tell without dimensions. Twin-engined aircraft such as the Mitsubishi Ki-67, according to the wiki entry for kamikazi, were used in kamikaze attacks on Allied forces during the Battle of Okinawa.

Wikipedia lists that as a medium bomber, so that AFAIK has to be the exception among kamikaze aircraft. They were usually very light; there was a twin-engine light bomber that they did use towards the end of the war as it had outlived its usefulness in other types of missions, but I can't remember the make or model.

ETA:
Kawasaki Ki-48.

 

[timhau]

Another good example would be the USS Enterprise. On May 14th, 1945 a Mitsubishi A6M Zero hit the deck of the Enterprise and smashed through six decks (including the 1.5 inch armour main deck) before exploding with enough force to send the forward elevator 400ft skyward.

-Gumboot

And let's not forget that the Zero is probably the closest thing in WW2 to a paper plane with an engine. It had a very light hull with no armor at all.

 

[leftysergeant]

So I Google "Kamikaze strikes, Enertprise" and came up with these:

http://navweaps.com/index_tech/tech042_Sangamon_pic.jpg

http://navweaps.com/index_tech/tech042_Intrepid_pic.jpg

That's some impressive steel for something so resembling a beer can to penetrate.

 

[LastChild]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

Kamikaze pilots would attempt to intentionally crash their aircraft — often laden with explosives, bombs, torpedoes and full fuel tanks — into Allied ships with a goal of causing greater damage than a conventional attack, using bombs or torpedoes.

What’s your point?

 

[apathoid]

What’s your point?

The point is that the (no-planers)contention that it's impossible for an aircraft to penetrate steel is wrong. Wouldn't you agree?

I thought that the OP was fairly self-explanatory myself.

 

[AMTMAN]

The point is that the (no-planers)contention that it's impossible for an aircraft to penetrate steel is wrong. Wouldn't you agree?

I thought that the OP was fairly self-explanatory myself.

Just as it should be impossible, using truther logic, for birds to punch holes in aircraft or wreck jet engines. Soemthing both you and I have seen first hand.

 

[njslim]

Been ongoing thread at ABOVE TOP SECRET for month running into 750 posts between
some "no -planer" cretins who claim that since outer shell of WTC towers were steel
and planes aluminium could not penetrate buildings. Several of the more sane types
(myself included) have tried to reason with these clowns citing the picture of the USS
HINSDALE and B25 hit on Empire State Building. Nothing doing - like on of those inflated
pop-up dolls no matter how hard hot them with reason keep popping back up with the
usual insane responses....

 

[apathoid]

Just as it should be impossible, using truther logic, for birds to punch holes in aircraft or wreck jet engines. Soemthing both you and I have seen first hand.

In the mind of a delusional tw00fer, pictures of birdstrike damage actually reinforce the steel vs. aluminum argument. The logic is something like this:

"If a measly stinkin' bird can penetrate aluminum, there is no way aluminum can be strong enough to penetrate steel"

Yeah.....I know......logic isn't the twoofer's strongsuit.

 

[funk de fino]

Just as it should be impossible, using truther logic, for birds to punch holes in aircraft or wreck jet engines. Soemthing both you and I have seen first hand.

Me also. The fan blades on our aircraft were a large distance back from the intakes so sometimes if the pilot did not report the birdstrike the only time you actually noticed was when you did your post flight inspection and stuck your head in the exhaust with a torch. Not only the blood and guts but the smell from when it is burned with the after burners and heat was bad as well.

We had a pilot years ago who was killed by a bird strike when it came through the windscreen.

 

[twinstead]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

Kamikaze pilots would attempt to intentionally crash their aircraft — often laden with explosives, bombs, torpedoes and full fuel tanks — into Allied ships with a goal of causing greater damage than a conventional attack, using bombs or torpedoes.

What’s your point?

The point is that if that Kamikaze attack would have happened today there would be some kooks out there looking at the OPs image on the internet and claiming foul because they just couldn't believe an aluminum aircraft could have made a whole like that in the side of a mighty warship.

They'd also be claiming that every sailor who witnessed the plane crash into the ship was fooled, lying, or in on it.

 

[funk de fino]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

Kamikaze pilots would attempt to intentionally crash their aircraft — often laden with explosives, bombs, torpedoes and full fuel tanks — into Allied ships with a goal of causing greater damage than a conventional attack, using bombs or torpedoes.

What’s your point?

The aircraft shaped hole is the point skip

Do you think the bombs, explosives and torpedoes made them?

 

[fuelair]

Just as it should be impossible, using truther logic, for birds to punch holes in aircraft or wreck jet engines. Soemthing both you and I have seen first hand.

So where were the little guys when momentum was discussed in Siunce fer Dumiez class in school?