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Advice needed! (Praying at work)

Oubliette

*insert clever/stupid/sarcastic title here*
Oubliette
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
241
Hello everyone :)

I just wanted to take some advice on a really uncomfortable situation happening at work:


I recently started working at a retail store and there's a really big group of employees. We took a training about a week ago and it was clearly stated that there would be NO discussion or debates about religion, politics and all that stuff but we've already had two gatherings at different places (for voluntary work) and two different employees requested a group prayer at both gatherings.

I didn't pray or anything but it made me feel uncomfortable because they just assumed that everyone was ok with it, even the managers and supervisors joined the prayer and said a few words. Doesn't this go against what was stated in the trainings about discussing religion or whatever?

I really don't wanna make a big deal about this because I don't wanna get in trouble or anything but it's my job and I feel uncomfortable with it. I can understand that I live in a country that is Christian based but that doesn't give them the right to assume that everyone's gonna be ok with it.

How can I address this to them without creating a major conflict at work?:confused:
 
From an employment law perspective, this doesn't seem illegal. They aren't forcing you to pray for example. Nor (so far) have any employment decisions been based on who prays or doesn't. Plus it doesn't seem like it's creating a hostile environment.

Given they have a policy, though, you should call them on it. Who wrote the policy (is it an HR publication, or is it something specific to the training sessions)? Is there a mechanism in place for filling complaints?

But you have to weigh your absolute right to complain about this with any reaction co-employees might have (oh my god, we have a baby eating atheist working here?!??!!).
 
I'd say just don't participate. Don't even fake participating.
If they ask why you don't join them, say you don't believe in God.

If the people are at all decent, they will likely realize their assumption has segregated on of their own. If they are liberal Christians, they may even voluntarily stop when they realize not everybody there is Christian.

Perhaps optimistic. Especially if you live in the Bible Belt. But it's what I'd do.
 
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If it were me, when they ask I'd simply say "wasn't there a rule mentioned that there would be no politics or religion?" Keep it in those terms, no matter what anybody says "so doesn't that rule stop group prayer then?"

That way you are not coming off as saying "we should not do pray"; you are simply asking for clarification of what the company policy is and coming across as somebody who wants to follow the rules.

If you don't win the day like that I'd just nod and say "great, thanks for the clarification" and then sit quietly while the rest do their thing.

Of course if you really want to throw the cat amongst the pigeons you could just say "Matthew 6.5-8 forbids public prayer. I won't defile Jesus by joining you, thanks."
 
Oubliette said:
I recently started working at a retail store and there's a really big group of employees. We took a training about a week ago and it was clearly stated that there would be NO discussion or debates about religion, politics and all that stuff but we've already had two gatherings at different places (for voluntary work) and two different employees requested a group prayer at both gatherings.
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A good response to that is to likewise request that those who wish to pray be courteous enough to those who don't so wish and respect their position.
I didn't pray or anything but it made me feel uncomfortable because they just assumed that everyone was ok with it, even the managers and supervisors joined the prayer and said a few words. Doesn't this go against what was stated in the trainings about discussing religion or whatever?
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Yes. Indeed, citing the company policy, in a polite and professional manner, is a good way to underline the possible breach of company policy they are suggesting. Who writes the pay checks? (We can even delve into the Render unto Caesar if you like. :) ) The company.
I really don't wanna make a big deal about this because I don't wanna get in trouble or anything but it's my job and I feel uncomfortable with it. I can understand that I live in a country that is Christian based but that doesn't give them the right to assume that everyone's gonna be ok with it.

How can I address this to them without creating a major conflict at work?:confused:
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The key is to address this is to be tactful. (Take the moral high ground, if you will.) Given their assumption, it might be worth your while to point out that you politely decline to be in a prayer group, and that on company time being respectful to one another is consistent with company policy.

IMO, folks who attempt to proselytize on the company dime are stepping across the line. Their best advertisement for their faith is in the example they set as good people.

DR
 
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To bpesta22:

It is a HR policy. It is stated in our Employee's Manual.


I'm just afraid that if I say something about it there would be repercussions against me. :(


ETA: Thanx for all the advice. I'm fairly new to this type of situation, since I was at the other side of it once. ;)
 
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That obviously would be illegal, but you'd have to prove it.

Do you know any of the HR folks; do any seem reasonable? Is there a way to send an anonymous complaint to them-- it's not cowardly; stranger things have happened than religious people acting wrongly to atheists.

If it gets, or could get ugly; document everything.
 
bpesta22 said:
That obviously would be illegal, but you'd have to prove it.

Do you know any of the HR folks; do any seem reasonable? Is there a way to send an anonymous complaint to them-- it's not cowardly; stranger things have happened than religious people acting wrongly to atheists.

If it gets, or could get ugly; document everything.
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Yes, I know the person who works at HR. She seems really nice and everything but she was part of the group prayer thing and I don't know if it will have any effect on it. I had my camera at both gatherings, is it ok to take pics or record the thing?
 
Oubliette said:
To bpesta22:

It is a HR policy. It is stated in our Employee's Manual.


I'm just afraid that if I say something about it there would be repercussions against me. :(


ETA: Thanx for all the advice. I'm fairly new to this type of situation, since I was at the other side of it once. ;)
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If anyone gets shirty with you over this, and it's in the HR manual, I'd contact HR for assistance in defusing the issue. The rules are on your side.

Again, how you package your reliance on the HR regulation goes a long way to preempting repercussions. It's a workplace harmony thing. Since you don't want trouble, odds are your approach will be warm and courteous enough to not incite trouble. By taking the moral high ground, kill 'em with kindness, you can identify for HR who possible trouble makers might be if said suggesters choose to make an issue of it.

I hope this can be resolved simply and cleanly, since workplace drama is a bane to productivity. Don't be bullied, however. There is a time and a place for everything (courteously cite Ecclesiastes to your Christian friends if you need to make a point of this in their language), and if theses folks are attempting to do be wedgeasses about this, I don't think you should put up with this.

Advice from a Christian who is tired of some Christians setting poor examples.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
If anyone gets shirty with you over this, and it's in the HR manual, I'd contact HR for assistance in defusing the issue. The rules are on your side.

Again, how you package your reliance on the HR regulation goes a long way to preempting repercussions. It's a workplace harmony thing. Since you don't want trouble, odds are your approach will be warm and courteous enough to not incite trouble. By taking the moral high ground, kill 'em with kindness, you can identify for HR who possible trouble makers might be if said suggesters choose to make an issue of it.

I hope this can be resolved simply and cleanly, since workplace drama is a bane to productivity. Don't be bullied, however. There is a time and a place for everything (courteously cite Ecclesiastes to your Christian friends if you need to make a point of this in their language), and if theses folks are attempting to do be wedgeasses about this, I don't think you should put up with this.

Advice from a Christian who is tired of some Christians setting poor examples.

DR
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Noted. Thanx! :)
 
I'm guessing if when they called for a prayer you whipped out a small rug, faced Mecca and knelt with your face to the floor, they might rethink the whole idea.

Just a thought.
 
As a military guy, this is something that is commonly dealt with. We always get visits from the Chaplain (I politely bow my head. I don't pray along with everyone else, but my objective is to worry about whatever task it was I was on, not to take attention away from the Chaplain or make a political statement) and then carry on later. I've told many that I am an atheist, and it says so on my dogtags as well. It has been a problem for me yet. I do take people to task for using the old phrase "There are no atheists in foxholes". I kindly inform them that it's because you don't dig those in sand.
 
Voluntary work? Are people being paid at these voluntary work gatherings? If not, then this is simply some sort of unofficial employee club, and I doubt you could stop the activity, but if they are, then I think they would be running afoul of the HR policy, at the least. Is this store part of a chain? If so, I think the best approach would be to seek out the corporate HR office.

You asked how you could do it without creating a major conflict. I'm afraid that's impossible. Your best bet is anonymously. Your next best bet is to do it openly, hope you get fired on some other flimsy excuse, and try your luck with a religious discrimination lawsuit. This is America. You could get rich.
 
I don't see a problem with taping it, though if they do, they could probably ask you not to.

My only concern is to run it up some chain of command or formal complaint process before taping it ("odd that you would go to the trouble of taping it-- as if to use it against us-- when merely bringing up the issue would have resulted in us stopping the prayer sessions").

It becomes illegal when they treat you different with regards to a term or condition of employment.

It becomes a hostile work environment if a reasonable person in the same work environment as you would find the behaviors offensive (I wouldn't think a group prayer would count, unless you complained and they did it anyway to taunt you). And, the behaviors would have to be so severe or pervasive that they poisoned the work environment.

I guess the option is to weigh how bad just tolerating it makes you feel with how bad the possible backlash might be if people are ignorantly offended by atheists.
 
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You could also just send an anonymous letter to HR.

My hunch is you're probably not the only one uncomfortable with that situation.
 
meg said:
I'm guessing if when they called for a prayer you whipped out a small rug, faced Mecca and knelt with your face to the floor, they might rethink the whole idea.

Just a thought.
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Excellently thought, but I have a small upgrade to that:

Claim you are a Pastafarian, and your religious services require that a Beer Volcano be provided, along with a small vat of alfredo sauce.
 
See, a rug would be a reasonable accommodation, because the company doesn't have to spend money on it. But, have you looked into how expensive beer volcanos are lately? The employer would not be obligated to buy you one (unless maybe it was Pabst beer?).
 
Is the group prayer part of your work, or part of a volunteer program organised by your work? I'm unclear on the situation here.
 
Meadmaker said:
Voluntary work? Are people being paid at these voluntary work gatherings? If not, then this is simply some sort of unofficial employee club, and I doubt you could stop the activity, but if they are, then I think they would be running afoul of the HR policy, at the least. Is this store part of a chain? If so, I think the best approach would be to seek out the corporate HR office.

You asked how you could do it without creating a major conflict. I'm afraid that's impossible. Your best bet is anonymously. Your next best bet is to do it openly, hope you get fired on some other flimsy excuse, and try your luck with a religious discrimination lawsuit. This is America. You could get rich.
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We went to do some voluntary work in name of the Company and yes, it's part of a chain.
 
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