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Accupuncture is real

Nolan Coppenger

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Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
65
National Public Radio reports today a tremendous medical study of arthritis, accupuncture has a significant benefit to remove pain of arthritis, better than placebo and sham accupuncture. The ancient knowledge of the Chinese wise culture is absolutely proven.
 
Not to needle you, but what is the reference?
NPR had no such study reported when I was driving today and your statement pricked my interest, but not vice versa.
 
Give the bloke a chance to reference his material.

Honestly, you're both acting like pricks.
 
Looking at acupuncture sceptically I've never seen why it might not have actual benefit.

After all interfering with nerve transmission is known to affect sensation.

If you bang your leg the first thing you do instinctively is to rub it. This 'confuses' the stimulus sent to the brain - it is receiving the same pain signals, but also tactile sensations which bottleneck and the overall pain sensation is reduced.

It might not be fully understood but I don't see why acupuncture can't work within known scientific principles.

Even the Sceptics Dictionary entry on Acupuncture allows that some pain relief is not unreasonable:
Nevertheless, it is possible that sticking needles into the body may have some beneficial effects. The most common claim of success by acupuncture advocates is in the area of pain control. Studies have shown that many acupuncture points are more richly supplied with nerve endings than are the surrounding skin areas. Some research indicates sticking needles into certain points affects the nervous system and stimulates the body's production of natural painkilling chemicals such as endorphins and enkephalins, and triggers the release of certain neural hormones including serotonin. Another theory suggests that acupuncture blocks the transmission of pain impulses from parts of the body to the central nervous system.
It just seems like acupuncture could be perfectly normal medical science working in a method appropriated by strange beliefs and linked to 'ancient beliefs'.

If it works due to clustering of nerves and interference with their transmission then it is part of known medical science.
If it works by altering unknown 'energy channels' then it is paranormal.

It was believed in days of yore that drilling holes in people's head allowed demons to escape and cured madness by posession.
The fact was that drilling holes in peoples head can alleviate mental disturbance due to brain inflammation and subsequent pressure release. It didn't mean that demons actually existed.
 
Nolan Coppenger said:
National Public Radio reports today a tremendous medical study of arthritis, accupuncture has a significant benefit to remove pain of arthritis, better than placebo and sham accupuncture. The ancient knowledge of the Chinese wise culture is absolutely proven.

The ancient Chinese also believed in fairies and ghosts, which you seem to not believe in this thread .
 
OK, I read Randi's text, thanks for the link. You are saying it's inaccurate? No, you seem to be saying it's incomplete. As if it's Randi's job to do the work of the claimants. Discussants here seem to be dealing with the possibilities, and such. But it does strike me as a little bit of a taunt if you blame Randi for not rebutting or refuting or addressing issues in advance. What do you think he is, psychic or something?
 
jzs said:
Randi's entry in his Encyclopedia (http://jref.sawco.com/FMPro?-db=enc...or=list.htm&-op=BW&L=a&-find=Search&-script=c) doesn't even mention that acupuncture does have some known benefits. Wonder why?

Your comments about what the article contains are wrong, I’ll quote the relevant bit:


…snip…

, are said to bring about analgesic, anaesthetic or curative effects. …snip…

Do you know if at the time the article was authored there was accepted scientific research that proved it had an affect? I know when I had acupuncture (for an arthritic condition) nearly 20 years ago I couldn’t find any research that was accepted that actually demonstrated a repeatable, quantifiable effect.
 
Nolan Coppenger said:
National Public Radio reports today a tremendous medical study of arthritis, accupuncture has a significant benefit to remove pain of arthritis, better than placebo and sham accupuncture. The ancient knowledge of the Chinese wise culture is absolutely proven.

You are massively overstating the case. "Accupuncture works to relieve arthritis pain" is not the same as "Ancient Chinese were totally right about absolutely everything."
 
Darat said:
Your comments about what the article contains are wrong

T'ai Chi/Whodini/jzs may see himself as a thorn in the sides of skeptics, but he's just a little prick.
 
Darat said:
Do you know if at the time the article was authored there was accepted scientific research that proved it had an affect? I know when I had acupuncture (for an arthritic condition) nearly 20 years ago I couldn’t find any research that was accepted that actually demonstrated a repeatable, quantifiable effect.

I think the placebo needles were only invented recently, and until that proper blinded testing wasn't really possible.
 
Matabiri said:
I think the placebo needles were only invented recently, and until that proper blinded testing wasn't really possible.

What is a placebo needle!? A pointless one? :)
 
Source

At 26 weeks, 43% of the participants in the education group and 25% in each of the true and sham acupuncture groups were not available for analysis.

WTF? Why is there such a big difference? And why is the number in the education group (those who got the "real" acupuncture") so high?

But at least they recognize it:

Many participants dropped out of the study, so readers should interpret the findings at 26 weeks with caution.

Hardly "The ancient knowledge of the Chinese wise culture is absolutely proven."
 

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