A Solution to Yellow Bamboo

[Blue Monk]

<TABLE BORDER="0">
<TR>
<TD>
He was kicked from behind.


I was initially curious as to why anyone else would be rushing this guy during the test. It seemed to me that the subject should have done it alone.


Consider these stills. Since some frames are duplications I'm numbering them by unique frames. These are unique frames 7, 8 and 9.

<TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>

<TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>
In these first three frames here Mr. Joko Tri is in full form and headed toward the master. Note the individual behind him. He seems to be feeling the effects sooner than Mr. Tri and appears to fall out of frame. In fact he may be setting himself up to twist and perform a back-kick to Mr. Tri's head but one can't be sure.


Now consider the next three frames, unique frames 10, 11 and 12.

<TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>

<TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>
Now please notice that in frame 10 a blurry image has appeared behind Mr. Tri. Also note that Mr. Tri does not appear to be affected yet even though the man behind him showed a significant reaction several frames earlier.


The next frame (unique frame 11) is where I believe he is being kicked in the back of the head or perhaps zapped with a stun gun. Note again that he does not show any immediate reaction.


The frame immediately following the frame where he appears to be kicked it is quite clear he is going down now baby.


Below are two close-ups of frame 11. In one I've made a crude (very crude but you get the idea) outline of what looks like a kick to me. Someone reaching in with a stun gun seems more plausible to me due to Mr. Tri's twitching but he image just looks more like a kick to me.
<TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>

<TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>
This, of course, is only a theory as the movie was so (intentionally) unclear and I would welcome any comments.

<TD>
</TR>

</TABLE>

 

[MemeHacker]

Those 3 frames jumped out at me as odd also, really to blurry to tell anything for sure. I can sort of see the leg and foot (at least as a possibility) but I can't understand how Joko (and his friend and the reporter) would have not felt/noticed the kick.

 

[TheBoyPaj]

While that thing which appears to swing down on him is unidentified, there is also the matter of the very obvious feet of the people who are following him. When he is on the floor twitching you can see other people's legs all around him. Any one of those could have tripped him.

Absolute poppycock.

 

[Blue Monk]

I agree with both of you but still do not find Mr. Tri's account totally inconsistent with this theory.

I then felt a small push against me which made
me quite dizzy and knocked me to the ground.
The others behind me also were knocked to the
ground. But they were behind me not in front
of me. At no time nobody or nothing touched me

Well, 'something' pushed against him and it is odd that the others fell backwards while Mr Tri fell forward. His statement that nobody touched him should be read has he was 'unaware' of anyone touching him as even Mr. Tri does not have eyes in the back of his head.

To me it all smacks of classic misdirection. Mr. Tri sees the others fall backwards and apparantly to the ground and therefore assumes that they are no longer in the equation.

His description of being dizzy and his twitching behavior afterwards does seem very much like what happens when someone is zapped with a stun gun.

One thing seems clear though. There is some sort of activity directly behind him just as he goes down.

I suspect that in the long run this group will never submit to a test that only involves the 'master' and the test subject.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I'm getting a really strong JFK assassination video deja voodoo here.

~~ Paul

 

[Ed Baehr]

Stun gun!

I must admit that I was not puzzled by the falling part. The quality of the video is so poor that almost anything including the foot to the head may have caused the drop. What puzzled me was the fact that he stayed on the ground. The stun gun is an effective way to produce this but proximity to the subject is an issue. On the other hand, a Taser is the perfect delivery system for the electrical charge that disrupts the electric impulses to the muscles from a distance of up to 21 feet. The Taser is used in law enforcement for controling violent people by non-lethal means. It even comes with a laser sighting system, and uses compressed air to fire the darts.
Just a thought,
Ed Baehr

 

[Suggestologist]

Re: Stun gun!

I must admit that I was not puzzled by the falling part. The quality of the video is so poor that almost anything including the foot to the head may have caused the drop. What puzzled me was the fact that he stayed on the ground. The stun gun is an effective way to produce this but proximity to the subject is an issue. On the other hand, a Taser is the perfect delivery system for the electrical charge that disrupts the electric impulses to the muscles from a distance of up to 21 feet. The Taser is used in law enforcement for controling violent people by non-lethal means. It even comes with a laser sighting system, and uses compressed air to fire the darts.
Just a thought,
Ed Baehr

Do either a stun gun or a taser feel like "a small push"?

 

[Ed Baehr]

I know that they both immediately cause spasm and make muscles get stupid. I've never trained with one but I know people who have. I'll pick their brains and post probably tomorrow or the next day.
Sorry, that's the best I've got.
Ed Baehr

 

[Suezoled]

I saw proof of the Lochness Monster in that footage. It was grainy and hard to see but it certainly was Nessie. You'll just have to take their word about the other thing, too.

My question is, why is it proof of these things is always filmed so poorly?

 

[T'ai Chi]

To me it seems that if that was someone kicking the attacker from behind, shouldn't their foot be larger? It seems, and of course this is nearly impossible to tell from the poor video, that the foot is too small if it indeed kicked the attacker on the back, who is closer to the camara.

Although, the motion of this foot from behind and the attackers' bending over appear perfectly in unison.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

You guys are focusing on the misdirection and looking for fancy answers. I don't think we need them.

Joko fell over of his own accord, because he was a YB stooge. That's my opinion.

 

[Ed Baehr]

For what it's worth, I'm advised by people who know that being shot with a taser feels like an electrical shock followed by a combination drug/alcohol disorientation.
I agree that the simplest explanation is that the faller may have yellow bamboo connections but if there are to be further "tests" something like this might be worthy of consideration.
Ed Baehr

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

A stooge??

I doubt that Joko was a stooge for Yellow Bamboo...if he was, couldn't they have done a better job than this?

 

[arcticpenguin]

For what it's worth, I'm advised by people who know that being shot with a taser feels like an electrical shock followed by a combination drug/alcohol disorientation.
I agree that the simplest explanation is that the faller may have yellow bamboo connections but if there are to be further "tests" something like this might be worthy of consideration.
Ed Baehr

But afterwards, wouldn't you have some way of knowing you were hit with a taser? Doesn't it leave any marks?

 

[T'ai Chi]

By the principle of charity, I will give anyone the benefit of the doubt and believe everyone involved is entirely honest, until the facts say otherwise, if necessary.

It certainly appears that Joko could have been contacted from behind by something (a foot for example), because Joko bends over right when the thing from behind appears to contact him. Of course, from the poor video quality it is near impossible to determine anything for certain, and those apparently related actions could simply be coincidence: Joki bending over, and someones' foot flailing in the background because they are being pushed backwards, both at the same time.

I think a lot of confusion could have been avoided by doing the video in the daytime.

 

[Pyrrho]

By the principle of charity, I will give anyone the benefit of the doubt and believe everyone involved is entirely honest, until the facts say otherwise, if necessary.

You can't give people the benefit of the doubt when they claim to do something that violates the laws of physics. At the most, all we can do is say that nothing has been proven one way or the other. Benefit of the doubt is not justified. The default position is that it is just not possible.

The fact that they claim to be able to knock people over using paranormal means indicates that they are a bunch of liars.

 

[alfaniner]

Of course, we know that he was really knocked over by a paranormal hat shape. You only saw the poor internet copy of the video.

(I am embarassed (or maybe pleased) to say just how long it took to find that d*#* picture...)

 

[reprise]

By the principle of charity, I will give anyone the benefit of the doubt and believe everyone involved is entirely honest, until the facts say otherwise, if necessary.

It certainly appears that Joko could have been contacted from behind by something (a foot for example), because Joko bends over right when the thing from behind appears to contact him. Of course, from the poor video quality it is near impossible to determine anything for certain, and those apparently related actions could simply be coincidence: Joki bending over, and someones' foot flailing in the background because they are being pushed backwards, both at the same time.

I think a lot of confusion could have been avoided by doing the video in the daytime.

I think a lot of confusion could have been avoided by JREF having more than one representative at the demo/test/whatever it's now being called and by making adequate recording of the event by both sides (and preferably by an independent party as well) part of the protocol.

I'm astonished that provisions for recording this event were not clearly outlined in the protocol.

One reason that I still half expect Randi to say "gotcha" is because the circumstances under which it took place are so like the kind of "evidence" which Randi and JREF use to point out the flaws in the protocols used by woo-woos everywhere. I can't think of any conceivable reason why the JREF would have agreed to be represented by a single person in the first place, let alone one about whom nobody knew anything. You might send such a person on a reconnaisance mission ("can someone go take a look at these people and come back and tell us your thoughts"), but you sure as heck don't engage them as your sole representative in a situation which gives rise to legal liability.

If - and in my mind it's still a HUGE if - JREF did indeed agree to such a sloppy protocol for an actual preliminary test then JREF's credibility within the skeptical community should rightly suffer significant damage. That YB may well be hoaxers and frauds doesn't diminish one bit the loss of credibility JREF fully deserves if it actually helped design or agreed to something which was so flawed and failed to ensure the very controls we so self-righteously demand that others employ.

 

[T'ai Chi]

You can't give people the benefit of the doubt when they claim to do something that violates the laws of physics.

I partially disagree. They could be completely honest, just mistaken in their understanding of what is going on, for example.

The fact that they claim to be able to knock people over using paranormal means indicates that they are a bunch of liars.

There is always the possibility that they have stumbled on to something new and never before seen. Highly improbably based on what we know about the world, but who knows.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Mmm, I notice he swings that bamboo stick high over his head (against advice). If it's a fresh bamboo, it will be conductive, so an overhead wire could easily be rigged to give him a taser-like electric shock as he swings it and touches the wire. His account of the incident is not characteristic of electric shock, but it does not rule it out, either.

About this YB trick in general: I'm a bit puzzled; aren't they claiming that the sound-waves in the scream somehow stuns the "attacker"? Sound is known to have various physiological effects already, even if they should be right and a new one is thus discovered, what exactly is supernatural about it???

On the comments about the unsafe protocol: Yes, I agree; if JR actually agreed to consider this arrangement a preliminary (even if the protocol was violated), I can only conclude that he is becoming reckless.

Hans