A Ghost Named Elizabeth

[Blue Mountain]

Last night I was at a party hosted by a friend of mine whom I'll refer to as Harris. He's spent the last three years remodelling a hundred year old house, and at one point in the evening told his guests of the ghost he believes is in his house.

His first indication that something was amiss was his elderly (21 year old) cat's out of character behaviour one morning. She was staring at a place apparently near the top of the refrigerator and making unusual noises, and attempts to calm her were unsuccessful for several minutes.

A few days later a door or drawer (I think it was a lower door on his new refigerator) would mysteriously open while he was in the kitchen. He said one time the door opened spontaneously when he was cooking an omelette on his gas stove. After he had quickly checked the door and closed it, he returned to his omelette to discover it was no longer cooking. Apparently while he was checking the door the ghost had mischievously turned off the burner.

Harris then consulted a local ghost hunter, who dropped by one day armed with an impressive array of equipment. The devices included the standard EMF meter, which he used as walked through the house. Initially he found nothing, just low readings in the 5 - 10 range. Even the hunter was skeptical there was a ghost there until the meter reading suddenly jumped into the 100 - 150 range. Then the hunter was able to "follow" this anomalous reading around as he "tracked" the ghost.

Now certain there was a ghost in his house, Harris brought in a medium to contact it and determine some details. She reported contacting the spirit of someone named Elizabeth, who she described as being a short, older woman wearing her hair in grey curls. The medium expressed her opinion that Elizabeth was a tenant in the house and had in fact died there, but was unaware she had actually died, so her spirit remains there still.

Harris says the ghost is most active on full moons. Her most common activities appear to be playing with the controls on the gas stove (which he can hear from other rooms but which stop as soon as he goes to the kitchen to investigate) and turning on lights after he's certain he's turned them all off for the night.

I'm by no means convinced there is anything paranormal going on here. Robert Baker and Joe Nickell famously said, "There are no haunted places, only haunted people." About the only two things in this story I can't explain immediately are the apparent fiddling with the stove controls and light switches (Harris doesn't seem to be the type to be forgetful about these things) and the refrigerator door opening on its own. After all, it's a new fridge and the magnets holding the door closed should be strong.

A couple of facts about the house and its inhabitants: the house is just over 100 years old. The south end had settled and had to be raised about eight inches before Harris started renovations. The kitchen was completely re-done as part of the extensive renovations he did on the main floor. Harris is middle-aged and unmarried, but lives with a foster son who is somewhere between 17 and 21 years old.

I'm interested in hearing the opinions of other people here.

 

[cj.23]

I'm very pushed for time, so will respond later, but the age of the house is irrelevant. I once watched a toilet seat slam up and down for no particular reason is house that had stood for all of six months. We videoed it, but really it could have been faked.

 

[DangerousBeliefs]

We all wish our house was special.

Having a ghost certainly makes the house seem special. Isn't it interesting that when we have something strange happen in our house, some folks think "a ghost did it!" I usually think "the boy did it!"

 

[Matilda]

I think once people decide there is a ghost, they frequently start to see anything odd as a manifestation of this, and won't necessarily look for other answers. And sometimes what is actually going on when something odd happens isn't obvious, and doesn't occur to us, provoking the idea in the first place. 'Ghost' is a cultural explanation that's easily comprehensible, but it doesn't have any evidence behind it, nor does it really explain anything. Your friend could just as easily have a browny mucking about for fun . Just as much evidence and fits what he's experienced just as well.

I have no idea what's going on in you friends house; you can't easily tell if you're not there when something like this is happening, and even then there's no guarantee someone would come up with the right answer.

Is it possible that the old house has dodgy gas and electricity? If the gas on his stove was cutting out sometimes then maybe that would switch it off. Perhaps you could talk to someone who might know about that. And if your friend has come to believe there is a ghost, he might switch from thinking 'oops I left the fridge open' and never remembering the event again to 'Elizabeth again' and it sticking in his mind. Just some ideas - there may not be anything in them.

 

[Blue Mountain]

I think once people decide there is a ghost, they frequently start to see anything odd as a manifestation of this, and won't necessarily look for other answers. And sometimes what is actually going on when something odd happens isn't obvious, and doesn't occur to us, provoking the idea in the first place. 'Ghost' is a cultural explanation that's easily comprehensible, but it doesn't have any evidence behind it, nor does it really explain anything. Your friend could just as easily have a browny mucking about for fun . Just as much evidence and fits what he's experienced just as well.

Harris subscribes readily to all sorts of woo, so it's no surprise to me that he's convinced he has a ghost in his house.

I have no idea what's going on in you friends house; you can't easily tell if you're not there when something like this is happening, and even then there's no guarantee someone would come up with the right answer.

Is it possible that the old house has dodgy gas and electricity? If the gas on his stove was cutting out sometimes then maybe that would switch it off. Perhaps you could talk to someone who might know about that. And if your friend has come to believe there is a ghost, he might switch from thinking 'oops I left the fridge open' and never remembering the event again to 'Elizabeth again' and it sticking in his mind. Just some ideas - there may not be anything in them.

I know the house has been rewired, for Harris talked quite a bit about the effort involved in that work. The gas stove is new as well, as is the line to it, since there was an electric range there before. (He had an album of before/after photographs--this house is a labour of love for him.)

Dodgy gas? It's possible, I guess, but we're in Winnipeg, where the temperature has been at -30 C overnight for the past two weeks. His house is heated by a gas furnace (he mentioned the dramatic drop his gas bills took from his previous home, due to improved insulation and windows in the new one). Our gas utility makes darned sure things are running well.

 

[DangerousBeliefs]

Harris subscribes readily to all sorts of woo, so it's no surprise to me that he's convinced he has a ghost in his house.


I know the house has been rewired, for Harris talked quite a bit about the effort involved in that work. The gas stove is new as well, as is the line to it, since there was an electric range there before. (He had an album of before/after photographs--this house is a labour of love for him.)

Dodgy gas? It's possible, I guess, but we're in Winnipeg, where the temperature has been at -30 C overnight for the past two weeks. His house is heated by a gas furnace (he mentioned the dramatic drop his gas bills took from his previous home, due to improved insulation and windows in the new one). Our gas utility makes darned sure things are running well.

I would suggest he install a hidden video camera with a motion sensor... and tell no one of it... he might be surprised what sort of "ghost" he finds.

 

[cj.23]

Last night I was at a party hosted by a friend of mine whom I'll refer to as Harris. He's spent the last three years remodelling a hundred year old house, and at one point in the evening told his guests of the ghost he believes is in his house.

His first indication that something was amiss was his elderly (21 year old) cat's out of character behaviour one morning. She was staring at a place apparently near the top of the refrigerator and making unusual noises, and attempts to calm her were unsuccessful for several minutes.

I have a good knowledge of cats, and would say such behaviour is entirely in line with a bug or a fascinating reflection. Cats are odd creatures.

A few days later a door or drawer (I think it was a lower door on his new refigerator) would mysteriously open while he was in the kitchen. He said one time the door opened spontaneously when he was cooking an omelette on his gas stove. After he had quickly checked the door and closed it, he returned to his omelette to discover it was no longer cooking. Apparently while he was checking the door the ghost had mischievously turned off the burner.

Avoiding jokes about things going "Zuul" in there and eggs frying themselves on worktops - hey I am a ghosthunter by profession, I'm allowed to joke - several things spring to mind. The refrigerator is new. Therefore there could be an issue with the locking mechanism on the door, it could be that the door is badly manufactured and it is contracting as it cools?, or an badly moulded rubber insulation fitting? However also my cats irregularly manage to open the fridge door. Also the house is one hundred years old, and therefore the floor may be uneven, and standing on some boards might be involved in making the door open by shifting the fridge? Try jumping around vigorously. Will amuse the cat at least.

I'm a semi pro-ghosthunter (I freelance in other things). Even if the door opened in front of my eyes, I'd blame an issue with the appliance, not the unquiet dead. Sorry to be a cynic! And I'm a believer.

Harris then consulted a local ghost hunter, who dropped by one day armed with an impressive array of equipment. The devices included the standard EMF meter, which he used as walked through the house. Initially he found nothing, just low readings in the 5 - 10 range. Even the hunter was skeptical there was a ghost there until the meter reading suddenly jumped into the 100 - 150 range. Then the hunter was able to "follow" this anomalous reading around as he "tracked" the ghost.

I have a theory that EMF meters only really picked up in ghosthunting after Ghostbuysters, when we needed PKE meters bust suffered from the minotrflaw that they were fictional. I make myself very unpopular with my colleagues in the ghosthunting business by my frequently expressed opinion that EMF meters are very useful - if you want to bang a nail in to hang a picture and are unsure precisely where the wiring is. I once watched a chap follow a ghost round with an EMF meter - he was following the lighting main from what I could see. 5-10, 100-150 means nothing to me i'm afraid, so I can't tell you how significant the readings are, but I'm be sceptical. There is no qualification whatsoever to call yourself a ghosthunter, though I think I'm a pretty good one.

However if there were anomalous readings be fun to check then out properly. A few times i have seen weird EMF, normally down to bad wiring, and changing that has helped with the "ghost". Get an EMF meter and go look. Make sure you choose a single direction for all readings, and hodl it steady facing that way, level. Don't wave it about in the air - you will get weird readings. And maybe turn the new fridge off first, juyst whiule oyu do it -- I recall my mate Phil Whyman chasing a spook around with an EMF meter in one room in a Most Haunted Live episode while I frantically texted him "you are picking up the fridge mate!" I think he worked it out himself before he got my text though. Note to all live TV ghosthunters - vibrate mode is your friend!

Now certain there was a ghost in his house, Harris brought in a medium to contact it and determine some details.

It seems quite a stretch - we have --

* a fridge door that opens
* a cat who may be as interested in why that is as you are - or can just smell the plastic new smell, or the thing fallen down the back?
* some erratic EMF, which might be the neighbours washing machine, or some other electrical device anywhere in some distance. (Another classic common ghosthuntiung EMF mistake - chasing the cell phone in your own pocket -- I should write a book on this!)

So the evidence while it may feel strong actually strikes me as, well weak!

She reported contacting the spirit of someone named Elizabeth, who she described as being a short, older woman wearing her hair in grey curls. The medium expressed her opinion that Elizabeth was a tenant in the house and had in fact died there, but was unaware she had actually died, so her spirit remains there still.

Interesting. Check it out. Try also to check out three morre houses of 100 years of age if you have time. My problem is that short is subjective, older women not rare, grey hair goes with the territory, and Elizabeth (esp. if you allow Beth, Liz, Lizzy etc) a rather common name, especially in the last 100 years. So none of this strikes me as very useful.

Harris says the ghost is most active on full moons. Her most common activities appear to be playing with the controls on the gas stove (which he can hear from other rooms but which stop as soon as he goes to the kitchen to investigate) and turning on lights after he's certain he's turned them all off for the night.

That is interesting! I suffer from OCD - obsessive compulsive disorder - and checking and rechecking these things is what I would do... Still, Harris has something quite real now - my apologies fo rdoubting. OK, can he tape/dictaphone the sounds? I would buy a cheap webcam or CCTV set up, and leave it running in the kitchen.

I'm by no means convinced there is anything paranormal going on here. Robert Baker and Joe Nickell famously said, "There are no haunted places, only haunted people."

I'd disagree with them, but only partially. I'd refer them to Wikinson, Gauld and Cornell's Poltergeists (1977?) and the factor analysis, which showed a haunting (place) group, a polt (group), and the polterghost group I have spent many many happy years considering the philosophical implications of in various articles.

About the only two things in this story I can't explain immediately are the apparent fiddling with the stove controls and light switches (Harris doesn't seem to be the type to be forgetful about these things) and the refrigerator door opening on its own. After all, it's a new fridge and the magnets holding the door closed should be strong.

it's actually a very good account of event BM, and i agree with you. You have given us a very useful description, and have done so much better than most "professionals" ever could. And i do love a good ghost story!

A couple of facts about the house and its inhabitants: the house is just over 100 years old. The south end had settled and had to be raised about eight inches before Harris started renovations. The kitchen was completely re-done as part of the extensive renovations he did on the main floor. Harris is middle-aged and unmarried, but lives with a foster son who is somewhere between 17 and 21 years old.

I'm interested in hearing the opinions of other people here.

I think it is probably all explicable, as descibed above. The lights might really be going on and off - I give you that - and we have a weird EMF fluctuation recorded by the ghosthunter - so clearly you need a second opinion. Now I'm up for a USA holiday, if its all expenses paid - no, I'd feel bad cashing in. Bugger, bloody ethics... OK, instead, you need a second opinion - from a qualified electrician. Ask Harris to get it checked out, and buy him a smoke alarm - just in case. I don't mean the ghosts - I mean the electrics. The stove noises are probably something else expanding and contracting, but worth monitoring with a camera?

Still this is all rather boring, and not by any means what is expected of a ghosthunter like me, so as I can't manage blink tags all over the place and 16 different fonts I'll just use lurid pink and I will also propose a
WILD PARANORMAL THEORY!

Ok, here goes... question --- “if ghosts are spirits, how do thy open doors, bang, and interact with the physical world?”
Well I have argued for a long time that ghosts may be primarily INFORMATION – not necessarily the recording theory, but something similar. The idea is a ghost is NOT physical in the accepted sense – it is closer to being made of the stuff of ideas or thoughts, but an objective idea/thoughts, which may be experienced by independent witnesses. It is real – just non-physical.

No if so, a human brain may be needed to “receive” said idea. So hence the absence of excellent quality ghost photos/films – (some do exist, but let us pass on that for a moment, and assume they can all be explained away) – by this theory ghosts can only manifest when there is a human being to see or hear or whatever them.

Yet as a casual search and analysis of a random sampling of ghost cases by Sunchime and myself showed – ghosts are USUALLY associated not just with appearances, but with knocks, bangs, small object movement, doors opening, etc, etc. Minor physical phenomena.

Also, and confusingly, many ghosts show directed intelligence – they seem to act with purpose, and occasionally even interact with the living. An information model could include the possibility of intelligence – but a recording can not. So is there a way of saving the recording theory in the light of the physical and intelligence aspects of the hauntings?

My guess is yes: the key is in the observer.

Now we are dealing with miracles, and two very different miracles interest the ghost hunting and parapsychology gangs in my experience.

Ghosthunters generally are interested in ghosts. Duh.

Parapsychologists are interested in supposed unknown powers of the human mind, called PSI – ESP, which includes psychokinesis (mind movement), telepathy, clairvoyance etc, etc.

Assuming both miracles exist, and that is a big assumption, I think ghosties might work like this.

The ghost of Elizabeth haunts the physical location of Harris' house – and is information. Some, maybe all humans have the capacity to experience Elizabeth, maybe the cat too, but when there is no observer, 'she' can not be perceived. Ghosts haunt people, not houses.

If a witness however “tunes in” to Elizabeth, their own psychic powers may be activated – they can blame the impossibilities they commit on the ghost. Denial of personal responsibility for the psychic actions may be psi-enabling according to many parapsychologists. Ditto belief. Both might make some sense. It was the ghost moved it, not me.

So if you took 5 different ghosthunting groups to the house, although there might be some agreement on the ghost, there might also be a lot of different phenomena, unwittingly created by the different groups own psychic powers, unleashed by the fact they can perform impossibilities because "Elizabeth" did it... . I call these hypothetical “additions” to the phenomena “psi-de effects” – a term I am proud of, but if anyone invented it or can find a reference to it before 1993 do let me know!

So my guess, and we are multiplying miracles here, is that the “ghost” does not ever interact with the physical in any way. That is done in fact by humans, using these psi powers, who ascribe it to the ghost. This would explain the physical aspects of the hauntings –it might even explain some of the intelligent behaviour.

In which case even Recording/Stone Tape could be rehabilitated as theories to explain ghosts. I have no idea how psychokinesis would effect matter (wonderful gobbledigook - "you wouldn't understand madam - it's technical!) , but at least we have no moved from “spirit” to a ‘mere’ energy conversion.

If I am right, Spirits by definition possess no energy, no mass, only information. It requires information to be a fundamental principle of reality - which I'm guessing might annoy those who know something about physics, which I am afraid i don't.

So when a psychic talks about energy – it is there own energy that is really involved – not the ghosts. Without the ghosthunter, there is NO ghost – but that does not make it in any sense less real.

And furthermore - lets apply Occam's RAzor to this tawdry mess of multiplied miracles - we don;t actually need the ghost or spirit to be real. If PK, or some other psi abilities were real, then Harris' belief in the ghost as it build may slowly allow him or another resident to psychically generate the ghost by PSI alone... which strikes me as no more likely than the ghost, but in keeping with what we are seeing. Actually, the Toronto Experiment worked like this -- look it up - Phillip the manufactured ghost, Axel, etc, etc.


That was fun. It may even make some sense, and it's therapeutic to take the mickey out of oneself and ones colleagues occasionally. Personally, I don't think we need to invoke anything more than misperception in this case, but hey its always fun to think up a theory!

Have fun, and really do hope you get to the bottom of it. Hope my levity does not offend. I really do hunt ghosts for a living, more or less... if only I could charge my clients I'd be wealthy!



cj x

 

[cj.23]

I think once people decide there is a ghost, they frequently start to see anything odd as a manifestation of this, and won't necessarily look for other answers. And sometimes what is actually going on when something odd happens isn't obvious, and doesn't occur to us, provoking the idea in the first place. 'Ghost' is a cultural explanation that's easily comprehensible, but it doesn't have any evidence behind it, nor does it really explain anything.

Agreed absolutely.

I
Your friend could just as easily have a browny mucking about for fun . Just as much evidence and fits what he's experienced just as well.

Surprisingly, I agree with you completely - and leaving a saucer of milk and a cupcake out for the brownies did in fact cure the Offchurch Haunt of 93/94. Was the the building really haunted by mischievous pixies? I doubt it, but it was a useful model, and the folk belief cure worked. Who am I to complain about a result? (Actually I do - I drivel on about it endlessly. Some clients want their ghosts "cured" - maybe 20-30% - and I want to study them. "So what if the ghost harms my children while you try to study it?" they say. "I hope it uses the wood axe, and we catch it on tape" I reply. "You only care about science!" shrieks the outraged mother, to which I usually reply along the lines of "Don't be silly ma'am, I want to sell the footage of an invisible ghost eviscerating little johnny to the major media networks - we'd all be millionaires!" Something like that anyway...

Still Matilda is completely correct - brownies are a useful working hypothesis in some cases. Yes, I am serious...

cj x

 

[Matilda]

You lost me at assuming ghosts exist. Yes, I know you said this is a big assumption, but right there I think rational thought flies out of the window and crashes into the rubbish bins with a loud clanking noise.

I agree that investigators may effect hauntings. My opinion is that how the investigators conceptualise what's happening effects what the individuals involved see as paranormal phenomina and what they rule out, and there is a marked difference in accounts between hauntings investigated by for example the Warrens (it's demons) and a haunting being investigated by those who think psychokinesis is involved. I don't think the paranormal needs to be involved for the investigators to effect accounts of hauntings.

 

[cj.23]

You lost me at "assuming ghosts exist." Yes, I know you said this is a big assumption, but right there I think rational thought flies out of the window and crashes into the rubbish bins with a loud clanking noise.

I agree that investigators may effect hauntings. My opinion is that how the investigators conceptualise what's happening effects what the individuals involved see as paranormal phenomina and what they rule out, and there is a marked difference in accounts between hauntings investigated by for example the Warrens (it's demons) and a haunting being investigated by those who think psychokinesis is involved. I don't think the paranormal needs to be involved for the investigators to effect accounts of hauntings.

Are we referring to the pink bit here? I did not intend to defend that,as it was just me being playful and taking the mick out of my profession. Sure you would expect people to generate differing reports of a haunting depending on their cultural expectation, just as English ghosts go woo! Woo! and I assume Danish ghosts go wøø! wøø! Well maybe not!

So yes, even without a psi hypothesis, differing expectation and cultural beliefs between investigators would generate differing ways of structuring and presenting the narrative of the "ghost account." So sure...

Question is whether there is any objective phenomena behind this mass of subjective reporting. I did also wonder if anyone would notice my 'idea' ghost in this very dualist hypothesis which only manifests through observers consciousness is almost, but not quite, indistinguishable from no ghost at all, and very close to "the idea of a ghost".

Still if we have paranormal events we have paranormal events. Let's establish that before worrying too much about hypothetical causality!

cj x

 

[Matilda]

Question is whether there is any objective phenomena behind this mass of subjective reporting.

Over a century, and we haven't established the reality of paranormal phenomina. It may well not exist.

I did also wonder if anyone would notice my 'idea' ghost in this very dualist hypothesis which only manifests through observers consciousness is almost, but not quite, indistinguishable from no ghost at all, and very close to "the idea of a ghost".

Yep, but without any foundation for your hypothisis, it doesn't help matters any.

Still if we have paranormal events we have paranormal events. Let's establish that before worrying too much about hypothetical causality!

I agree.

 

[Cuddles]

I did also wonder if anyone would notice my 'idea' ghost in this very dualist hypothesis which only manifests through observers consciousness is almost, but not quite, indistinguishable from no ghost at all, and very close to "the idea of a ghost".

Generally known as "God of the gaps". It's one of the very easy ways of telling real science from the woo. As more evidence is acquired, virtually all woo phenomena, including religion, are forced to continuously redefine whatever they are talking about in order to explain why we haven't found it yet. In the end it always comes down to believing in something that is no different from the thing not existing at all. In this case, if the ghost only appears in the observers' conciousness, there is no difference between the ghost doing something and the observers' minds doing something, in either case there is no effect on the rest of the world. There is no difference between the ghost existing or not and therefore it makes no sense at all to assume it does.

 

[Blue Mountain]

First, thank you CJ for the time you put into examining the story from a ghost hunter's perspective.

I have a good knowledge of cats, and would say such behaviour is entirely in line with a bug or a fascinating reflection. Cats are odd creatures.

And the cat is elderly. Harris says she's 21. That's old, even for a cat. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a factor.

The refrigerator is new. Therefore there could be an issue with the locking mechanism on the door, it could be that the door is badly manufactured and it is contracting as it cools?, or an badly moulded rubber insulation fitting? However also my cats irregularly manage to open the fridge door. Also the house is one hundred years old, and therefore the floor may be uneven, and standing on some boards might be involved in making the door open by shifting the fridge? Try jumping around vigorously. Will amuse the cat at least.

I'm a semi pro-ghosthunter (I freelance in other things). Even if the door opened in front of my eyes, I'd blame an issue with the appliance, not the unquiet dead. Sorry to be a cynic! And I'm a believer.

I thought perhaps the fridge may be a bit unbalanced, but never suspected the door might be out of sorts.

I have a theory that EMF meters only really picked up in ghosthunting after Ghostbusters, when we needed PKE meters bust suffered from the minor flaw that they were fictional. I make myself very unpopular with my colleagues in the ghosthunting business by my frequently expressed opinion that EMF meters are very useful - if you want to bang a nail in to hang a picture and are unsure precisely where the wiring is. I once watched a chap follow a ghost round with an EMF meter - he was following the lighting main from what I could see. 5-10, 100-150 means nothing to me i'm afraid, so I can't tell you how significant the readings are, but I'm be sceptical. There is no qualification whatsoever to call yourself a ghosthunter, though I think I'm a pretty good one.

Pretty much my thoughts, too, although I'll add the thought that there is no reason to expect a ghost should produce EMF interference. Humans don't when they're alive (well, we do, but since it falls off as the square of the distance from the brain, and that after getting through the skull bone, an EMF meter won't detect it), so I don't see how they should do it after they're dead.

It seems quite a stretch - we have --

* a fridge door that opens
* a cat who may be as interested in why that is as you are - or can just smell the plastic new smell, or the thing fallen down the back?
* some erratic EMF, which might be the neighbour's washing machine, or some other electrical device anywhere in some distance. (Another classic common ghosthuntiung EMF mistake - chasing the cell phone in your own pocket -- I should write a book on this!)

So the evidence while it may feel strong actually strikes me as, well weak!

That's rather amusing, actually, a ghost hunter following his/her own cell phone around with an EMF meter!

Interesting. Check it out. Try also to check out three more houses of 100 years of age if you have time. My problem is that short is subjective, older women not rare, grey hair goes with the territory, and Elizabeth (esp. if you allow Beth, Liz, Lizzy etc) a rather common name, especially in the last 100 years. So none of this strikes me as very useful.

That is interesting! I suffer from OCD - obsessive compulsive disorder - and checking and rechecking these things is what I would do... Still, Harris has something quite real now - my apologies for doubting. OK, can he tape/dictaphone the sounds? I would buy a cheap webcam or CCTV set up, and leave it running in the kitchen.

Unfortunately, Harris is only a casual friend, and the party was a gathering of people who had something in common. So I doubt I'll get a chance to do further investigation.

It's actually a very good account of event BM, and i agree with you. You have given us a very useful description, and have done so much better than most "professionals" ever could. And i do love a good ghost story!

Why, thank you! I rather fancy myself a writer.

I think it is probably all explicable, as described above. The lights might really be going on and off - I give you that - and we have a weird EMF fluctuation recorded by the ghosthunter - so clearly you need a second opinion. Now I'm up for a USA holiday, if it's all expenses paid - no, I'd feel bad cashing in. Bugger, bloody ethics...

Truth be told, I'm in Canada. Best to come in June or July; the weather here is unimaginably cold right now (we've averaged about -20 C the last two weeks.)

Have fun, and really do hope you get to the bottom of it. Hope my levity does not offend. I really do hunt ghosts for a living, more or less... if only I could charge my clients I'd be wealthy!

Again, thanks for your input!

 

[Blue Mountain]

One thing I would like to do at some point, when I have access to an older house on a regular basis, is bring in four or five different mediums, independent of each other, and tell each one I have a ghost. I'd have a good back story in place, similar to what I've posted here. Then I'd ask each one to contact the ghost and tell me what they can about it.

I'd bet good money I'd get five rather different ghosts. It would be interesting, too, to see if male mediums find a male ghost and female mediums find a female ghost. It would also be interesting to see if the type of ghost changes if I make subtle variations in the back story, such as what was on the site before the house was built.

Now, if mediums and ghosts are real, one of two things should happen:

1. They should all describe a similar ghost, or
2. They should each say they could not contact a ghost, if there truly is none

 

[Soapy Sam]

But what would 2. prove?

If you brought 5 sceptics in , you would get probably the same result.

I think (if we draw a discreet veil over the pink bits) cj makes valid comments. Harris has jumped from minimal evidence to an unlikely conclusion. Most examples of things being turned on or off when the opposite was expected are due to sheer bad memory.

If a gas ring is heard being turned on (and ignited?) when nobody is near it, we have a contender- easily tested- for the $1million challenge. But I suspect Harris is simply misinterpreting sounds in the kitchen. Objective data required.

 

[cj.23]

One thing I would like to do at some point, when I have access to an older house on a regular basis, is bring in four or five different mediums, independent of each other, and tell each one I have a ghost. I'd have a good back story in place, similar to what I've posted here. Then I'd ask each one to contact the ghost and tell me what they can about it.

I'd bet good money I'd get five rather different ghosts. It would be interesting, too, to see if male mediums find a male ghost and female mediums find a female ghost. It would also be interesting to see if the type of ghost changes if I make subtle variations in the back story, such as what was on the site before the house was built.

Now, if mediums and ghosts are real, one of two things should happen:

1. They should all describe a similar ghost, or
2. They should each say they could not contact a ghost, if there truly is none

Hi Blue Mountain.

Very clever idea -- and it has been tried. I even got some positive results with it, but I'm still refining the controls. 5 "psychic" claimants, or peopele who think they are "sensitive" are fairly easy to come by - even ones you might feel ok inviting in to someone elses house. (Call me cynical but I always fear folks might be casing the joint! My house - cool. Someone elses - i'd feel guilty if they got burgled...)

The idea was first developed by NY parapsychologist Gertrude Schmeidler, in her paper on Quantative Assessment of A Haunted House. I don't have the paper or the reference to hand, but the proposed protocol has been developed quite a bit since then, though to almost universal disinterest. A few UK groups I have been involved with have tried it, with varying levels of success, but surprisingly positive results... Note positive here means a high degree of agreement between the "psychics" and the witnesses - but that in itself tells us nothing about the nature of the "phenomena" -- I'll get back to that shortly...

Here is my current version thereof. I still refer to it as the Schmeidler Protocol, as it is clearly based entirely on that, and because The Schmeidler Protocol sounds like it should be a cool 70's thriller or a Quatermass episode. Feel free to critique my methodology --

Now firstly, you are going to need an experimental team. Let us assume you are the Investigation Coordinator. Firstly, locate your haunted property. Interview your witnesses - being careful not to ask leading questions - and get the main facts. A case with multiple witnesses and visual apparitions, preferably where the witnesses have not conferred is ideal. However any multiple attested ghost case where you can record primary accounts from the people concerned is cool. Obviously one with no published history, where events are currently occurring, but are known to very few people works well.

Secondly you need to have a set of good clear accurate maps. These are issued to your psychics or their "buddy" (see next).

Now, take your "witness testimony", and select words relevant to the phenomena for each account. Just a list of words which constitute a hit. How improbable that hit is is really really problematic to work out - word frequency tables won't work in my opinion, because the nature of the ghost narrative predisposes certain words more than in normal usage, and ghost books are edited and hence not reliable as a source. Also some words simply go together in conceptual blocs - young, pretty, talented, sexy, actress, singer. Cliches! Cliches bugger up your probabilities no end. Still you need to know what constitutes a "hit" for the Word Challenge! ( I might not be a rich and famous ghosthunter, but I might have made it as a gameshow host...) Also get your witnesses to draw on your map exactly where they saw things. Take measurements if need be. Then produce a composite master map, showing all witness reports.


OK, next up - find your psychics. I'd personally try and get them from 30 miles or more away (I'd also drive them to the location hooded, blindfolded under the hood, wearing head phones and playing loud music by a very circular route, just in case. In the past this has provoked severe motion sickness, but has not actually resulted in me being sued or arrested - to date.) Many psychics might prefer you just don't tell them where they are going till the day, and some properties location or function is obvious once inside and the blindfolds taken off anyway.

Now you need five psychics, and 5 buddys - fellow investigators, with no knowledge of the building,and who are kept apart from each other, and have never met the witnesses. The buddys should each have a VCR and record all testimony. They should hand the map to the psychic.

Now the psychics and buddy are sent in, independently, to the empty building. Each records on their map where and what they are experiencing, marking exact locations if possible. I usually use small squares which can be filled in. Record all the walk through.

Thank your psychics. Give them a filmed ten minute debrief after they left the building, asking of extra impressions etc. Make it clear they have everything they want to say recorded, and have no" I was going to says". When they have agreed that on tape, end the interview and film.

Now this is pretty hard work. Why five people to walk the psychic round? Why can't you just do it?

Because you know what happened and where. Even if you are incredibly careful with what you say, your body language breathing or even sweat might be giving them clues. So someone who does not know the stories or witness testimony is needed to do this. Also, as we are going to test the mediums/psychics/sensitives statements for consistency, well if you have just heard Madame Arcana say this room is filled with an invisible demonic menage a trois, when you take Fluffy the Vampire Boffer in the same room 5 minutes later you might give off clues... So you need independent walk rounds.

I'd also ask 5 imaginitive ghost sceptics to walk round as a control - but there is a problem here. We can't prove they are not actually psychic. In fact one of our sceptics consistently hits well above chance in ESP tests 9for the first ten minutes till they grow bored at least), and on a couple of runs of this experiment did better than some of the "psychics" - more on this in a moment..

Next, you thank everyone, and play back the testimonies on a big screen, to make sure everyone agrees they were not edited. Then you can overlay the maps on transparencies, and talk through the results, and introduce the witnesses. the press might like this bit too - if the venue wants coverage. Its a nice way to round off the proceedings.

Then, compare
* the psychic testimony versus the "Word Search" lists
* the psychic maps versus each other
* the psychic maps against the witness maps

So what have you got?

Assuming that
* ghosts do not wander around much - a rather large assumption!
* the witnesses are reliable
* the psychics had no foreknowledge of the building

You might have some evidence indicative of the haunting hypothesis.

Of course "haunting" here i use in my usual sense to mean - something makes people think this bit is spooky. You might want to look for mould, damp, lighting oddities, weird angles, etc, etc to see why people all chose the same areas. The fact they agree ultimately tells us nothing about the nature of the "haunt" - it merely tells us there is an objective "haunt" ie. something odd going on in that particular area. Smell may well be important, or magnetic fields, or I dunno. You work that out for yourselves...

So there you go. I've written up a lot more on how this can work, and indeed since '93 when I first tried it in the UK it seems to slowly be becoming more common. Not many ghosthunters pay any attention to it, but I personally think it might be rather useful? Not that anyone on the JREF is likely to listen to a ghosthunter like me!

Anyway, dunno BM, any thoughts?

cj x

 

[cj.23]

Generally known as "God of the gaps". It's one of the very easy ways of telling real science from the woo.

Indeed. Us theologians are often accused of believing in it. Of course the term was actually developed by theologians and Christian writers as a way of denigrating exactly that kind of sloppy thinking about God - something few folks remember to acknowledge...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps#Origins_of_the_term

In this case, if the ghost only appears in the observers' conciousness, there is no difference between the ghost doing something and the observers' minds doing something, in either case there is no effect on the rest of the world. There is no difference between the ghost existing or not and therefore it makes no sense at all to assume it does.

Ah, well that was the pink bit, and me playing. I did make that clear? However in my hypothesis there is a difference - because two separate minds can perceive the same entity, despite no communication on the subject, at widely differing times. Hence "ghost" not "idea". It's almost not there, but not quite. AN objective idea. Quite a strange thing, but they must exist in science i think... wanders off looking thoughtful...

cj x

 

[Inanna]

Does the ghost still appear & makes its presence felt by the actions you mentioned,Blue Mountain?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So best I can tell, there's three second-hand anecdotal things that the ghost claim is based on:

1) A cat behaving in a strange manner. (C'mon--cats do all sorts of bizarre things. Staring at a point where nothing is has even been immortalized in T.S. Elliot's The Naming of Cats.)

2) A drawer that spontaneously opened when he was in a different room. How does he know it wasn't just left open and forgotten?

3) The "anomalous" readings on an EMF meter done by a "ghost hunter". First of all 100-150 whats? (If the units are super tiny, maybe this "jump" is insignificant. In other words, do we even know those numbers are anomalous?) And second, can the readings be reproduced by anyone other than a "ghost hunter"?

The guy is a believer and he's telling stories. Every story is colored by his belief. I have no doubt that the next time you hear some of the same stories told, they'll get even eerier. And the guy can be completely sincere and truly have the memories that he claims. It doesn't mean they're accurate.

With the confirmation bias going, he will attribute any unexplained sound, any cold spots (in a large old house) and almost anything else that many of us wouldn't even notice as being caused by the "ghost".

 

[dsmith]

In the days I used to believe a little more in woo, I had a similar experience. I could follow footsteps upstairs when no one was there. My dog used to chase and bark at something through the downstairs rooms that were connected in a circle. I even had a dream where the spirit came to me and told me his name was Edgar. I laugh at the notion now. The only explanation that fits is I wanted to believe there was a ghost and successfully used an active imagination to reach this conclusion.