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A Better Way to Spend 1 Trillion Dollars in Response to Covid-19

Meadmaker

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Apr 27, 2004
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So as the government prepares to throw large quantities of money in random directions in the hope that something good would come out of it, I was thinking of just how stupid that is, and what could we do instead. Here is my "If I were President, here's how I would spend a trillion dollars" thread.

It starts with unemployed people registering as general purpose labor to do whatever is needed.

Then, do the following.

(TL,DR version: Use government money to pay grocery delivery drivers and people to assist cleaning and anti-contagion issues at essential industries.)

1. Do whatever is possible to increase production of medical equipment and personal protective gear like those N95 respirator mask thingies that I had never heard of but seem important. Likewise for test kits.

Unfortunately, you can't just make those things appear, but is there any way that a bunch of people could help? I don't know. Whatever it takes, give the people making them whatever they need, for free (i.e. with tax funds) employ as many general purpose laborers as they can use to make that happens. I will call the general purpose laborers GPLs from now on.

2. Make it so people don't have to leave their house.

Where do people have to go? The grocery store. So how do you stop that? You hire GPLs as delivery drivers. Free delivery. At government expense.
That's pretty darned expensive, but let's think about this. The government is willing to hand me 1,000 dollars for nothing. How much would it cost to pick out and send some groceries to me? Fifty bucks? I would rather, instead of giving me 1000 dollars, make 20 grocery deliveries. Now I don't have to leave my house. I can't catch the virus. I can't spread the virus.
And it shouldn't cost fifty bucks anyway.

3. To facilitate that, a modern grocery store doesn't quite work. I don't want the GPLs to be searching for the 8 ounce can of Hunt's Tomato Paste instead of the 7.5 ounce store brand tomato paste.

Instead, you set up distribution centers in unused high school gymnasiums and kitchens, and they have rolling stock. You order online based on what's available. Today you have Doritios? Great. But the staples, milk, eggs, bread, are there as consistently as possible. Yes, I know you want to pick out that really good package of pork chops, but if it means not catching a disease, would you just trust the GPL? Yeah, go for it. I've worked food banks. You package what you have.

And do you know how easy it is to set up a simple web site, the kind without fancy graphics and that doesn't track user preferences, to place orders? It could literally be done by tomorrow morning.

You will also need GPLs to man phone banks to answer questions, especially from people who aren't so internet savvy, and of course people who just think they're special so they have to talk to a person instead of reading the directions.

And you work with existing, conventional, stores to provide more custom deliveries. I tried to order groceries online yesterday, but the delivery option took two days because of the crush of demand. Make GPLs available, at no cost to the stores, to perform deliveries.

4. Some industries are essential. Medical supplies. Food processors. Toilet paper factories.

Essential industries get GPLs to ensure sanitation and whatever else non-trained labor can do. Somebody's job will be to wipe down door handles every few minutes at the chicken nuggets factory. That ensures these key industries keep running.

5. In order to make this all work, you need people on the ground, lots of them, to coordinate things. Since there is no way that there can be uniform procedures set up, the local coordinators have to have a lot of power to make decisions. The guys running these ad hoc distribution centers have to have power to make decisions on how goods get there. Some will do it very badly. Regional coordinators will have to have the power to fire and replace underperforming locals.

I think this is a job for the military. I can't see anyone else being able to create a chain of command that quickly. A huge job of an army is logistics. Put that to use. There aren't enough of them to do all the work, but they can hire the GPLs.

6, There aren't enough vans available. Authorize the local administrator to rent private vehicles. In other words, you can have my minivan if you give me fifty bucks a day.

7. Now, you have people locked (metaphorically) in their homes, the virus spread drops drastically. There will still be spread amongst the GPLs and at the essential industries you kept open, but as soon as the PPE goes to the health care workers that need it, you start sending them to essential industry workers, and the GPLs who serve them. That reduces contagion at distribution centers. At some point, it gets to the point that as soon as one person gets sick, you can track all the people he's in contact with, and test them before they show symptoms.

8. Did I mention this is incredibly expensive? Fortunately, you have a trillion dollars to work with, and instead of throwing money around in random directions, you are throwing money specifically at stopping the virus spread. You are employing the unemployed. You are keeping people in their homes where they can't catch or spread the virus. The GPLs and the industries they are assisting are, of course out in the world, but they have PPE as soon as it is available, and they can adopt lower risk practices more easily than random shoppers can.

It also isn't very efficient. Lots of these GPLs are going to be people who would rather sit around watching cartoons and they will be severe slackers. Oh well. That's a challenge for the administrators.

9. Congress passes laws to limit liability so that a company working with GPLs doesn't end up getting sued when it turns out one of the drivers was drunk, or whatever else might happen.

Sounds crazy? Is it crazier than having millions of people with no jobs heading to the grocery store to stand near hundreds of others during an epidemic?

Honestly, the only challenge I see that might be insurmountable would be the payroll handling.


Or.....how would you spend 1 trillion dollars?
 
And, when it comes down to it, I'm just a guy on the internet. It's not like any of this would really happen, but paying for grocery delievery really would be a good idea, however you could make it happen.
 
And, when it comes down to it, I'm just a guy on the internet. It's not like any of this would really happen, but paying for grocery delievery really would be a good idea, however you could make it happen.

One way to pay for grocery delivery is to give people money to spend as they need to. One of the ways that they need to right now is to pay for grocery deliveries.

They are probably better situated than a central planner at figuring out their current needs.
 
One way to pay for grocery delivery is to give people money to spend as they need to. One of the ways that they need to right now is to pay for grocery deliveries.

They are probably better situated than a central planner at figuring out their current needs.

Just make a deal with the grocers so delivery is free - gov't will cover cost. Have grocers enlist all the out-of-job uber and lyft drivers to handle the surplus. Figure out a pay before or charge back scheme to the stores...whatever works better.

Let the stores figure out how to handle the warehouse and 'picking' logistics. They know better how to do it.

eta: this assumes people order with current delivery systems in place. All the major grocery stores here already have it in populated areas. If it isn't such a populated area, then not much concern, right?
 
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One way to pay for grocery delivery is to give people money to spend as they need to. One of the ways that they need to right now is to pay for grocery deliveries.

They are probably better situated than a central planner at figuring out their current needs.

Interesting.

Someone is delivering groceries to you every day right now. Correct?

Are you paying for that?


ETA: And more to the point, if you gave people money to spend as they wish, would they spend it on grocery delivery? Obviously not, because they could right now, but they aren't.
 
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Just make a deal with the grocers so delivery is free - gov't will cover cost. Have grocers enlist all the out-of-job uber and lyft drivers to handle the surplus. Figure out a pay before or charge back scheme to the stores...whatever works better.

Let the stores figure out how to handle the warehouse and 'picking' logistics. They know better how to do it.

eta: this assumes people order with current delivery systems in place. All the major grocery stores here already have it in populated areas. If it isn't such a populated area, then not much concern, right?

Yep.

All of my other stuff about "supply centers" and whatever, is just another way that local authorities could respond if that's what they needed to do.

Announce a grant to every mayor to do what they need to to prevent huge numbers of people from sharing the same space in a supermarket. Get rid of random stimulus checks, and hire the newly unemployed for your labor Instead of throwing random money around, throw money directly at the problem.
 
Just make a deal with the grocers so delivery is free - gov't will cover cost. Have grocers enlist all the out-of-job uber and lyft drivers to handle the surplus. Figure out a pay before or charge back scheme to the stores...whatever works better.

Let the stores figure out how to handle the warehouse and 'picking' logistics. They know better how to do it.

eta: this assumes people order with current delivery systems in place. All the major grocery stores here already have it in populated areas. If it isn't such a populated area, then not much concern, right?

Issue is that you may need suitable vehicles able to keep refrigerated and frozen goods in tip top shape.
 
Issue is that you may need suitable vehicles able to keep refrigerated and frozen goods in tip top shape.

No you don't. You need a vehicle and maybe coolers to keep them in good enough shape, and you need a liability waiver through congress in case it wasn't good enough.

Your car doesn't keep things in tip top shape, and yet you go to the store and put them in your car and take them to your house, and maybe go through the Taco Bell drive through on your way home.

But the people who do this sort of thing for a living, i.e. who are already delivering groceries, can figure out some ad hoc procedures to make it even safer than if I, some dude on the internet, was making it happen.
 
Issue is that you may need suitable vehicles able to keep refrigerated and frozen goods in tip top shape.

Delivery is similar to local pizza or restaurant delivery. A few orders in short time windows. They do this now and have for years.

Maybe a heat wave might get you some misshapen popsicles if people don't bring them inside right away but it should work fine for most things.
 
One idea: finally do INFRASTRUCTURE WEEK!

Let anyone who was laid off because of Covid sign up to assist in a vast infrastructure project once the lockdown is over. Start organizing them by skill, see what kind of online job training is possible.
 
One idea: finally do INFRASTRUCTURE WEEK!

Let anyone who was laid off because of Covid sign up to assist in a vast infrastructure project once the lockdown is over. Start organizing them by skill, see what kind of online job training is possible.

Every time they close a freeway here for road work it is a major fiasco. Seems California is taking advantage of the lighter loads over the next few weeks to get that work done earlier.

I don't know that they are hiring more people but spending in this area now makes sense! Major closures done during the lockdown, other stuff afterwards.
 
One idea: finally do INFRASTRUCTURE WEEK!

Let anyone who was laid off because of Covid sign up to assist in a vast infrastructure project once the lockdown is over. Start organizing them by skill, see what kind of online job training is possible.

Hadn't thought of that, but it's certainly possible.

Road construction ought to be low risk work. They spread out a lot and don't deal with people. I don't know if you can mobilize untrained people to contribute, but it makes sense.

Beats throwing money into the air and hoping the stock market goes up.
 
Forcing other people (not “us” of course) to do menial jobs they don’t want to do supervised by the army? Can’t possibly what can go wrong.....

Governments are doing what’s required. The economy needs large cash injections aimed at keeping people in proper jobs and supporting those who are disadvantaged. There is not enough time to target it more finely than that.

This has worked before. Press ganging people into work was attempted during the Great Depression and didn’t work.
 
Forcing other people (not “us” of course) to do menial jobs they don’t want to do supervised by the army? Can’t possibly what can go wrong.....

Governments are doing what’s required. The economy needs large cash injections aimed at keeping people in proper jobs and supporting those who are disadvantaged. There is not enough time to target it more finely than that.

This has worked before. Press ganging people into work was attempted during the Great Depression and didn’t work.

Menial schmenial, and no one is forced.

The difference between the great depression and what I'm saying is that those were make-work jobs with some possible general societal benefit.

The problem with this economy is not cash flow, which is what Keynesian economics tries to deal with. This economy, i.e. the one that is about two weeks old right now, involves a very specific problem that is not money related, but is preventing people from working.

I'm saying actually use the money to attack the problem. The problem is the spread of the virus. It's not lack of funds. The virus is spread by people hanging out together. Make it possible for people to stay in their homes where they cannot contract and cannot spread the virus.
 
Menial schmenial, and no one is forced.

The difference between the great depression and what I'm saying is that those were make-work jobs with some possible general societal benefit.

The problem with this economy is not cash flow, which is what Keynesian economics tries to deal with. This economy, i.e. the one that is about two weeks old right now, involves a very specific problem that is not money related, but is preventing people from working.

I'm saying actually use the money to attack the problem. The problem is the spread of the virus. It's not lack of funds. The virus is spread by people hanging out together. Make it possible for people to stay in their homes where they cannot contract and cannot spread the virus.

Nonsense. Try explaining that to all the people losing their jobs without any savings or businesses forced to close their doors.

Your poorly thought through plan will not work. Cash has in the past and will help keep the economy alive.
 
Nonsense. Try explaining that to all the people losing their jobs without any savings or businesses forced to close their doors.

Your poorly thought through plan will not work. Cash has in the past and will help keep the economy alive.

My brother makes garage doors. They have lots of orders for garage doors. However, they are not making any garage doors. Why not? Because in order to make garage doors, the employees have to breathe on each other.

Give people a million dollars, and they still aren't going to be able to buy a garage door right now, and the garage door assemblers still won't have jobs.

And while the garage door market is no big deal, the same is true for cars. No one is making cars right now in the US, and cash is not the problem. Worker safety is the problem, but closing all those plants, and all their suppliers, is a huge deal, but no one can buy a new car with their stimulus check if no one is willing to go to work and make a new car.
 
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Any company that has moved their headquarters, banking, or a majority of their wealth outside the US or have outsourced more then... some reasonable percentage (I won't fault companies for just having some overseas employees, especially if they are a multinational corporation. I'll leave it to smarter people to figure out the exact numbers.)

Sign a contract, in public, with the details available in public record that you will bring that money and those jobs back to the US and pay reasonable, even "Good deal" just reasonable (which hell in most of your cases is going to be "Literally any" at this point) taxes for at least the next... *pulls number out of thin air* 15 years.

Do that, no clauses, no outs, and we will consider, CONSIDER, a bailout. No promises but we will put up for at least fair and reasonable consideration. We will need economic recovery on a lot of levels after this.

You refuse to do that? I repeat my "Go beg to the countries you hide in for bailouts and don't let the door hit you on the way out" response I gave to the cruise ship companies.
 
Any company that has moved their headquarters, banking, or a majority of their wealth outside the US or have outsourced more then... some reasonable percentage (I won't fault companies for just having some overseas employees, especially if they are a multinational corporation. I'll leave it to smarter people to figure out the exact numbers.)

Sign a contract, in public, with the details available in public record that you will bring that money and those jobs back to the US and pay reasonable, even "Good deal" just reasonable (which hell in most of your cases is going to be "Literally any" at this point) taxes for at least the next... *pulls number out of thin air* 15 years.

Do that, no clauses, no outs, and we will consider, CONSIDER, a bailout. No promises but we will put up for at least fair and reasonable consideration. We will need economic recovery on a lot of levels after this.

You refuse to do that? I repeat my "Go beg to the countries you hide in for bailouts and don't let the door hit you on the way out" response I gave to the cruise ship companies.

This sentiment doesn’t surprise me. Thank goodness it didn’t prevail at the end of WWII where the Marshall Plan helped rebuild the world and usher in decades of almost unbroken prosperity.

Just when we need international cooperation and a global plan, all we seem to get From some is “let’s look after ourselves and the rest of the world can get .......”.
 
Thank goodness it didn’t prevail at the end of WWII where the Marshall Plan helped rebuild the world and usher in decades of almost unbroken prosperity.

You're comparison is flawed in too many ways to bother even pointing out.
 

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