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a 2nd amendment meaning poll

Is this the same rule?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 14.3%

  • No

    Votes: 26 74.3%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • Total voters
    35

BobTheCoward

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Messages
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Changing the words around can make a rule still mean the same thing, or mean something different. I wanted to see what other people think about a very specific second amendment question

Here are two versions of a rule.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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and this one

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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Is this the same rule, or two different rules?
 
Welcome to the crux of the 2A debate. I believe you are only decades late, but we shan’t hold that against you.
 
Though I hold out little hope for continuing sense or civility in this discussion, I kicked off the poll with a "maybe." I think it is likely that the militia clause serves as an explanation for the right, not a definition of it, but that does not mean I think it is irrelevant, or that I would oppose modification of the amendment itself. I think more to the point is the question, likely never to be answered satisfactorily for all, of what "the right" is or was meant to consist of in the first place.

The right in question was not defined, but we have plenty of precedent for laws and for the Supreme Court to refine the boundaries of a right as time goes on. We are, after all, right now in the midst of a new SC argument on what the right of privacy entails.
 
BobTheCoward said:
I'm going to maintain the anonymity of my vote

ETA: Also I don't have an interesting answer.
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You don't even have an interesting question. We're all familiar with both sides of the argument. We've all said our pieces and reached our conclusions. This poll and thread amount to a fringe reset of an already well-discussed topic.

Without any new insight, without anything new to say, or even anything at all to say, why bother?
 
theprestige said:
You don't even have an interesting question. We're all familiar with both sides of the argument. We've all said our pieces and reached our conclusions. This poll and thread amount to a fringe reset of an already well-discussed topic.

Without any new insight, without anything new to say, or even anything at all to say, why bother?
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I have no opinion on that.
 
theprestige said:
You don't even have an interesting question. We're all familiar with both sides of the argument. We've all said our pieces and reached our conclusions. This poll and thread amount to a fringe reset of an already well-discussed topic.

Without any new insight, without anything new to say, or even anything at all to say, why bother?
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Im looking for a tally of those conclusions.

People have made their conclusions, and I would like to count them up. A poll before people have said their peace and reached their conclusions wouldnt be of value to me because I wouldn't have a bunch of people with conclusions to count
 
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Orginalism is a pseudo legal theory invented to justify whatever you want.
The 2nd amendment is a product of its time with no relevance to today.
 
The first one allows regulation including that the government can define what Arms are and limit citizens to possessing two of them.

The second one allows citizens to possess and use nuclear weapons.
 
I voted, but will just add that debating the amendment language is almost as stupid as arguing about biblical passages.
 
Once you recognize that no one ever meant "the people" to include literally every human being born in America (including, e.g. Sally Hemings' toddlers) then you have to ask yourself whether the prefatory language was intended to help with scope of applicability.
 
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