Trakar
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2007
- Messages
- 12,637
While doing a bit of light reading this weekend, I ran across this article which seemed both timely and interesting. As a preface, as many of you know I am quite Progressive in my public policy preferences. However, there are many areas where I disagree with a great many American Progressives, one of these areas is often on the subject of firearms. I live in a largely rural area where the nearest town of significance is between 45min. - 1hr away (depending on weather and traffic). I own a variety of firearms, from black powder muskets to some customized military style weapons, but many of these are kept securely locked away for most of the year and only taken out about this time of year to have a few rounds fired out of them, and are then broken down, inspected, and cleaned only to be packed away for another year. There are only 3 firearms that are regularly carried and used, a 12 gauge pump shotgun, a modified Winchester 88, and a Ruger Revolver. The Ruger and the shotgun are constant companions when I'm working the farmstead (there are still a lot of black bears, grizzlies and mountain cats - not to mention wolves and coyotes in the surrounding mountains and forests). Thus, my perspective on firearms is a bit different than many (if not most) American progressives. I have little problem with background checks, waiting periods, criminal or mental health restrictions, so long as they are designed to allow for extenuating circumstances and generally allow for most mature, responsible adults to be licensed and their guns to be registered (preferably locally). This all said here's a bit about the article:
The author(s) then proceed to list and describe these five types of gun laws (in paraphrase - with added commentary):
#1: Registration - Most of the colonies (except Pennsylvania where religious pacifists blocked the creation of a militia) – enrolled local citizens between the ages of 16-60 in state-regulated militias. Registration allowed the states to track of these privately owned weapons required for militia service. Militiamen could be fined if they reported for service without a well-maintained weapon in working condition.(This makes the phrasing used in writing the 2nd amendment - re:"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - in more modern terms this "right of the people," would more properly refer to the obligation of land-owning white men who were enrolled and active in their state-regulated militia to keep and maintain their militia weapons).
#2: Public carry - After the Revolutionary war, the American colonial legal system inherited restrictions that had evolved under English Common Law. Among these where the English gun laws which stated that "armed travel was limited to a few well-defined occasions such as assisting justices of the peace and constables." English common law was largely adopted as American common law before there was an America, to include a prevalent ban on traveling armed in populated areas. "There was no general right of armed travel when the Second Amendment was adopted, and certainly no right to travel with concealed weapons."
#3: Stand-your-ground laws - Castle doctrine allowed the justified use of deadly force only within one's own home. Early colonial interpretations of common law emphasized the obligation to retreat from violence and assault. "Deadly force was justified only if no other alternative was possible. One had to retreat, until retreat was no longer possible," before a firearm wielder could attempt to kill an aggressor.
#4: Safe storage laws - In short this refers to issues of what amount to safe, secure storage of firearms such as the old English common law statute that firearms must be stored in an unloaded state and secure from casual theft. Much of the discussion revolves around issues of "ordered liberty" and the forefather's discussions and balance of the values and detriments of the competing interests of personal liberty and civil order. A complex issue that probably deserves much more discussion modernly.
#5: Loyalty oaths - This addresses an issue which for a long time I was mistakenly inclined to myself, namely that one of the forefathers' primary reasons behind the second amendment was so that if our government became oppressive, the citizenry would have the means to resist and overthrow the government. In fact, during the Revolutionary war the Founders engaged in near universal disarmament of the much of the population living in our country. The right to bear arms (as seen above, that was actually a "right" dependent mostly upon being a free white male land-owner who joined and was active in the state-regulated militia) came with the additional requirement that the individual swear allegiance to the revolutionary/American government. Individuals who did not swear such an oath, had their guns confiscated (this is also the origination of the Constitutional concept embodied in Article 3, Section 3 that taking up arms against the federal government is treason and punishable by death).
I have no argument against sensible gun regulations, but I'm often confused about how some advocates conflate heavily armed agitator groups and individuals as having a "sensible" position on gun regulation. I'll end this post with a quote of the article's last paragraph:
Five types of gun laws the Founding Fathers loved
https://theconversation.com/five-types-of-gun-laws-the-founding-fathers-loved-85364
https://theconversation.com/five-types-of-gun-laws-the-founding-fathers-loved-85364
The author(s) then proceed to list and describe these five types of gun laws (in paraphrase - with added commentary):
#1: Registration - Most of the colonies (except Pennsylvania where religious pacifists blocked the creation of a militia) – enrolled local citizens between the ages of 16-60 in state-regulated militias. Registration allowed the states to track of these privately owned weapons required for militia service. Militiamen could be fined if they reported for service without a well-maintained weapon in working condition.(This makes the phrasing used in writing the 2nd amendment - re:"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - in more modern terms this "right of the people," would more properly refer to the obligation of land-owning white men who were enrolled and active in their state-regulated militia to keep and maintain their militia weapons).
#2: Public carry - After the Revolutionary war, the American colonial legal system inherited restrictions that had evolved under English Common Law. Among these where the English gun laws which stated that "armed travel was limited to a few well-defined occasions such as assisting justices of the peace and constables." English common law was largely adopted as American common law before there was an America, to include a prevalent ban on traveling armed in populated areas. "There was no general right of armed travel when the Second Amendment was adopted, and certainly no right to travel with concealed weapons."
#3: Stand-your-ground laws - Castle doctrine allowed the justified use of deadly force only within one's own home. Early colonial interpretations of common law emphasized the obligation to retreat from violence and assault. "Deadly force was justified only if no other alternative was possible. One had to retreat, until retreat was no longer possible," before a firearm wielder could attempt to kill an aggressor.
#4: Safe storage laws - In short this refers to issues of what amount to safe, secure storage of firearms such as the old English common law statute that firearms must be stored in an unloaded state and secure from casual theft. Much of the discussion revolves around issues of "ordered liberty" and the forefather's discussions and balance of the values and detriments of the competing interests of personal liberty and civil order. A complex issue that probably deserves much more discussion modernly.
#5: Loyalty oaths - This addresses an issue which for a long time I was mistakenly inclined to myself, namely that one of the forefathers' primary reasons behind the second amendment was so that if our government became oppressive, the citizenry would have the means to resist and overthrow the government. In fact, during the Revolutionary war the Founders engaged in near universal disarmament of the much of the population living in our country. The right to bear arms (as seen above, that was actually a "right" dependent mostly upon being a free white male land-owner who joined and was active in the state-regulated militia) came with the additional requirement that the individual swear allegiance to the revolutionary/American government. Individuals who did not swear such an oath, had their guns confiscated (this is also the origination of the Constitutional concept embodied in Article 3, Section 3 that taking up arms against the federal government is treason and punishable by death).
I have no argument against sensible gun regulations, but I'm often confused about how some advocates conflate heavily armed agitator groups and individuals as having a "sensible" position on gun regulation. I'll end this post with a quote of the article's last paragraph:
Last edited:
