2010 census survey isn't optional

[slingblade]

The government wants to get to know you, your name, gender, age, birth date and race. Who lives with you, do you own or rent your home?

It's not optional - a survey will arrive in the mail in March or April [of 2010] and by law you have to answer the questions truthfully and send it back. Refusing to answer the questionnaire is punishable by a fine up to $100; deliberately lying could bring a $500 fine.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/census_39696___article.html/office_bureau.html

My first reaction to this was "Oh no, hell no, you don't!"

I'm not even sure why I react that way, really. A bunch of nebulous stuff about intrusion, privacy, government strong-arming the populace....

I'm fairly certain this information is innocuous, not invasive, and should be had by at least one department of the government and probably more.

So why does it rankle so?

 

[madurobob]

What I find hilarious is they already have all this info and more in various databases. If they would simply do a little data mining of tax returns, Social Security and welfare data, etc.. they'd have all they need.

Then, they could send out a personalized "census" saying "here is what we know about you - please correct any errors or omissions". That might freak people out at first.. but I think it would be good to know what they think they know about me.

 

[RadioactiveMan]

This isn't anything new. There was a similar kerfuffle over the 2000 census and its "long form" that was sent to (I think) one in ten recipients. In addition to the unconstitutional questions the short form asked, this one went even further.

I wonder why the federal government needs to know if I have indoor plumbing or not.

 

[geni]

What I find hilarious is they already have all this info and more in various databases. If they would simply do a little data mining of tax returns, Social Security and welfare data, etc.. they'd have all they need.

They could but they don't really want to give people any further motive to mess with that data.

 

[geni]

I wonder why the federal government needs to know if I have indoor plumbing or not.

Water management issues.

 

[RadioactiveMan]

Water management issues.

That's a local issue for one. Second, I think it's more likely that the federal government thinks it has pockets busting open with cash and there must be, somewhere, a place that could use some "investing." (Translation: "vote buying.")

 

[sphenisc]

In the UK it would rankle because we know in six months' time the entire database is going to be left on a bus/the underground. Probably on a set of CDs labelled "This is NOT the national census data, and the password isn't 123456."

 

[madurobob]

They could but they don't really want to give people any further motive to mess with that data.

I know what you mean. But, the data exists, and by virtue of that alone it will get messed with. I'd rather they be up-front and honest about it.

 

[mrbaracuda]

http://www.gazette.com/articles/census_39696___article.html/office_bureau.html

My first reaction to this was "Oh no, hell no, you don't!"

I'm not even sure why I react that way, really. A bunch of nebulous stuff about intrusion, privacy, government strong-arming the populace....

I'm fairly certain this information is innocuous, not invasive, and should be had by at least one department of the government and probably more.

So why does it rankle so?

You're in a EU-state I assume? We got the same census coming up. I think it's EU-wide.

 

[slingblade]

You're in a EU-state I assume? We got the same census coming up. I think it's EU-wide.

No, I'm in Colorado. The article, if read, quickly reveals it's about the U.S. 2010 census.

Don't assume. Click a link once in a while, fer cryin' out loud.

 

[volatile]

Censuses help governments plan things like housing, welfare provision, infrastructure, health and education strategy and all kinds of things. What's the problem?

 

[Rob Lister]

Censuses help governments plan things like housing, welfare provision, infrastructure, health and education strategy and all kinds of things. What's the problem?

race is the primary problem for most. Why do they need that data?

 

[madurobob]

Censuses help governments plan things like housing, welfare provision, infrastructure, health and education strategy and all kinds of things. What's the problem?

Representation, too. The House is limited to 435 members, but how those 435 are apportioned among the states depends on population density (I think - am I remembering High-school civics correctly?).

So, the census is a big political football. Remember the dust-up in 200 when some folks (republicans) said we had to count every person and not rely on statistical sampling - even though sampling was more reliable?

 

[Jimbo07]

I wish the government had a massive, centralized and universally accessible database with all my information...

... might make dealing with them actually convenient!

 

[volatile]

race is the primary problem for most. Why do they need that data?

Demographics are important for all kinds of things. Looking for correlations between, say, race and household income, or race and education levels, will inform social policy. Collecting this data over a few decades can also track the success of programs designed to promote integration or reduce inequality or ghettoisation, for example.

 

[Rob Lister]

Demographics are important for all kinds of things. Looking for correlations between, say, race and household income, or race and education levels, will inform social policy. Collecting this data over a few decades can also track the success of programs designed to promote integration or reduce inequality or ghettoisation, for example.

all that sounds rather racist.

 

[volatile]

Representation, too. The House is limited to 435 members, but how those 435 are apportioned among the states depends on population density (I think - am I remembering High-school civics correctly?).

Yes indeed. The constituency boundaries in the UK are frequently altered in response to demographic shifts.

 

[RadioactiveMan]

Censuses help governments plan things like housing, welfare provision, infrastructure, health and education strategy and all kinds of things. What's the problem?

The problem, dear one, is that government doesn't need to plan housing (people do that nicely on their own), welfare provision (this could be a whole other argument, but as far as the census is concerned, what difference does it make to welfare planning how many bedrooms my house has?), infrastructure (local issue), health strategery (not the government's business), education strategy (local issue), or pretty much anything else.

That's the problem.

This is the long form from the 2000 census. Please tell me how many of the questions that appear in that form you think are necessary to fulfill the Constitutional requirement of counting heads in order to determine apportionment of representatives.

 

[ServiceSoon]

Censuses help governments plan things like housing, welfare provision, infrastructure, health and education strategy and all kinds of things. What's the problem?

Based on our constitution the federal government has very little authority on those issues. Article I section 8.

 

[cwalner]

This is the long form from the 2000 census. Please tell me how many of the questions that appear in that form you think are necessary to fulfill the Constitutional requirement of counting heads in order to determine apportionment of representatives.

Constitutional requirements, only question 1 (how many people live in the house).

However, for bettter or worse, We in the USA have over the last 232 years given over the the federal government the authority and expection to do significantly more than constitutionally required (housing, welfare, education, etc.) and most of the questions are geared to better provide those services we now expect from our government.

Therefore, while I believe that the government has every right to ask these questions, making a response mandatory is a little dubious. and since incorrect answers will cause problems in providing the services we expect, I have no problem passing those costs on to those who caused it (fines for intentionally incorrect answers).

So my take is ok to send out and fine the jokers who want to mess The Man by answering incorrectly, but let people choose to not participate without penalty.