Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[lionking]

Yes. What does that have to do with what we were talking about?

What we were talking about is a bald and unevidenced assertion made by Aber twice, that McDonalds uses Male and Female signage on their restrooms. Rolfe felt compelled to bring it up again a week after everyone else had dropped it.

It’s totally irrelevant that’s why. Yes, polka thinks it might be some sort of panacea, but that is rubbish.

 

[smartcooky]

Other people can read that post. You are not fooling anybody at all.

I suggest more of them will agree with me than agree with you.

Aber was NOT wrong... we can go back and read his posts too - he never claimed that ALL McDonalds' have such signage - so you're not fooling anyone on that count.

ETA: your ETA: I'm not suggesting they do, or should.

Then why do you keep telling everyone about how things are done where you live?

That's just another weird thing you keep repeating. You repeat a lot of really, really weird things.

Projection at its absolute finest!

I'm not the poster who says they disagree with self-ID, and then suddenly has no problem with it.
I'm not the poster who says they disagree with males going into women's toilets, women's refuges and women's rape crisis centres, and then is fine with trans-identified males doing so.
I find this behaviour really, really weird, and really, really demeaning towards women in general.
Your problem Thermal is that either you can't seem to articulate a coherent, consistent narrative about where you stand on this issue, or you are really, really crap at explaining what you mean. I suspect the former is more likely.

 

[Thermal]

It’s totally irrelevant that’s why. Yes, polka thinks it might be some sort of panacea, but that is rubbish.

p0lka didn't mention it. Aber brought it up, twice, as some kind of proof of...something, I dunno. When challenged on its obvious silliness, Aber got quiet. Twice. Then Rolfe wants to post about it a week later. And smartcoky wants to make further stupid comments about it.

Ask them why they can't let it go.

 

[lionking]

p0lka didn't mention it. Aber brought it up, twice, as some kind of proof of...something, I dunno. When challenged on its obvious silliness, Aber got quiet. Twice. Then Rolfe wants to post about it a week later. And smartcoky wants to make further stupid comments about it.

Ask them why they can't let it go.

Yes, Aber it was. Let’s move on.

 

[Thermal]

I suggest more of them will agree with me than agree with you.

In this thread? No doubt. The goosestep is strong, here.

Aber was NOT wrong... we can go back and read his posts too -

sidebar: I thought Emily's Cat said Aber was a she?

he never claimed that ALL McDonalds' have such signage - so you're not fooling anyone on that count.

Still means nothing. MDonald's has no policy at all. And if by implying that "McDonalds, the global fast food chain does this" , when really only one small resteraunt in Bumble ◊◊◊◊ Scotland has such signage, is supposed to give the argument credibility, then that is profoundly dishonest.

Then why do you keep telling everyone about how things are done where you live?

For the same reason every ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ poster ITT talks about how things are in their neck of the woods from time to time. Rolfe has detailed all about Scotland and her town. UKers talk about the scene on the ground in the UK. Hell, you've even talked about NZ.

And if you have understood any of my postings (doubtful), you would know I don't advocate what NJ has in place, but it is interesting that when we are told about the hordes of Transwoman imposters, I can opine on living under such a policy. It doesn't happen.

"If we adopt this policy, this is what will happen" is something I can speak to without hypothesizing, as others do. I live in it.

Projection at its absolute finest!

I'm not the poster who says they disagree with self-ID, and then suddenly has no problem with it.

OK, I get you don't understand that. Let me explain it for the hundredth time:

I think self ID is fine for establishing your own sense of gender to others, no doctor's note needed. I don't think this gives an all access pass to the girls' showers.

Please show me where you bog down in those two sentences.

I'm not the poster who says they disagree with males going into women's toilets, women's refuges and women's rape crisis centres, and then is fine with trans-identified males doing so.
I find this behaviour really, really weird, and really, really demeaning towards women in general.
Your problem Thermal is that either you can't seem to articulate a coherent, consistent narrative about where you stand on this issue, or you are really, really crap at explaining what you mean. I suspect the former is more likely.

Nah, the latter. Half the time I am posting in a rush while working. I'll cop to a lot of that being my bad.

 

[Aber]

Aber brought it up, twice, as some kind of proof of...something, I dunno. When challenged on its obvious silliness, Aber got quiet. Twice.

Bollocks

It was brought up because someone claimed that in the UK toilets were labelled men and women, and this meant that it was not clear who could use them as they were not clearly labelled by sex. The McDonalds example was because it was obvious and easily checked by anyone who was interested.

My claim is that every McDonalds I have visited uses Male and Female labelling. Your experience may be different, but is irrelevant.

 

[Aber]

sidebar: I thought Emily's Cat said Aber was a she?

And you're now policing pronoun usage about someone who wishes to maintain as much mystery about their identity as possible on the internet.

NB Emily's Cat is VERY careful about pronoun usage here, so you are at best mistaken.

 

[smartcooky]

In this thread? No doubt. The goosestep is strong, here.

Anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi... amirite?

I award you this - you deserve it!

sidebar: I thought Emily's Cat said Aber was a she?

Pronouns huh!

Still means nothing. MDonald's has no policy at all.

Nobody claimed they had a policy.

And if by implying that "McDonalds, the global fast food chain does this" , when really only one small resteraunt in Bumble ◊◊◊◊ Scotland has such signage, is supposed to give the argument credibility, then that is profoundly dishonest.

Nope.
Literally NO-ONE else in the thread read Aber's post the way you did. You are the only one who read it that way. This fact could tell you something about yourself if you're prepared to listen.

For the same reason every ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ poster ITT talks about how things are in their neck of the woods from time to time. Rolfe has detailed all about Scotland and her town. UKers talk about the scene on the ground in the UK. Hell, you've even talked about NZ.

But I don't keep doing it, and I certainly don't imply that my laws should apply to everywhere else in the world... YOU DO!

And if you have understood any of my postings (doubtful)...

...because they are often both incoherent and and incomprehensible.

, you would know I don't advocate what NJ has in place, but it is interesting that when we are told about the hordes of Transwoman imposters, I can opine on living under such a policy. It doesn't happen.

How would anyone know what you advocate for - you keep chopping and changing. You're all over the place - and EVERYONE here has noticed this, but you haven't.

"If we adopt this policy, this is what will happen" is something I can speak to without hypothesizing, as others do. I live in it.

OK, I get you don't understand that. Let me explain it for the hundredth time:

I think self ID is fine for establishing your own sense of gender to others, no doctor's note needed. I don't think this gives an all access pass to the girls' showers.
Please show me where you bog down in those two sentences.

Yet you keep screaming there is no evidence of trans identified males being any threat to women, and when we give examples, you either handwave it away or call us bigots and tranny-bashers.

That type of behaviour is right out of the TRA playbook!!!

Nah, the latter. Half the time I am posting in a rush while working. I'll cop to a lot of that being my bad.

First thing you're said in this thread for a long, long time that makes ANY sense at all

 

[Rolfe]

I've been on holiday. Still am come to that. I happened to be in that McDonald's on Monday because it's the only available sustenance close to the Tesla superchargers at Fort William. On previous occasions I hadn't taken any notice of the signage on the loos, just saw the pictograms. This time I looked, and lo and behold. So I took a photo. That's all.

That's all. Going on a trip to Mull today. Enjoy yourselves.

 

[smartcooky]

And you're now policing pronoun usage about someone who wishes to maintain as much mystery about their identity as possible on the internet.

NB Emily's Cat is VERY careful about pronoun usage here, so you are at best mistaken.

Sorry Aber. I refer to everyone here as "he" unless they object and correct.

 

[Ziggurat]

p0lka didn't mention it.

p0lka has been claiming for a long time that substituting “male” and “female” labels for “men” and “women” would make a difference. This wasn’t specific to McDonalds, but McDonalds is still included within this claim.

 

[d4m10n]

In U.S. political news, we've swung from the advocacy of Adm Levine to FTC hearings on the dangers of gender affirming medicine.

The Dangers of “Gender-Affirming Care” for Minors

The official website of the Federal Trade Commission, protecting America’s consumers for over 100 years.

www.ftc.gov

 

[Pixel42]

Trans changing room row nurse cleared of misconduct as tribunal resumes

The hearings for Sandie Peggie's case against NHS Fife and transgender medic Dr Beth Upton began in February.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[angrysoba]

Yes,
when you focus on a hostile protest, you will see the worst of the worst behaviors. We can do that with any politically charged issue, and declare the behavior we see as representative of day to day interactions. It's not really illuminating, and you know it.

Yeah. Those Nazis sure got a bad press. I mean, everyone always focuses on the bad things they did; the invasions of neighbouring countries, the thefts of millions of dollars worth of private art and treasures, the wiping out of entire villages for collaboration, the murder of 6 million Jews..... but those things are not really "representative of day to day interactions", and we only see the "the worst of the worst behaviors". We lose sight of all the good things they did such as a booming economy, full employment, large-scale construction of highways, and animal rights and wildlife conservation laws.

And, of course, their leader discouraged smoking, was a non-smoker himself, and a moderately talented artist too!! A poor, misunderstood soul who only wanted a better future for his peole... amirite?

I'm awarding you this. You earned it...

 

[p0lka]

Disqualified by the same testing protocol and for the basically same reasons, too.

I'd go even further and argue that biological females who underwent male puberty due to exogenous hormone treatments (East Germany provided a few historical examples) ought to be barred from the protected sex category in elite sport even after the treatments have ceased, because the advantages gained cannot be detransed away.

I'm behind the times but is the underlined a thing now? can you give me a link to the east germany examples cos it seems a bit iffy, i could be incorrect though.

 

[d4m10n]

Trans changing room row nurse cleared of misconduct as tribunal resumes

The hearings for Sandie Peggie's case against NHS Fife and transgender medic Dr Beth Upton began in February.

www.bbc.co.uk

Crazy to think how quickly it went from perfectly normal for a woman to complain about males in female spaces to a "hate incident" which might be seen as gross misconduct. I'm beginning to understand why social conservatives reflexively refuse all progressive demands for policy change, given how gay marriage (of which I fully approve!) freed up Stonewall to pursue this sort of nonsense.

 

[d4m10n]

can you give me a link to the east germany examples

There is an entire article on Doping in East Germany^WP available on Wikipedia.

Documents revealed state-sponsored programs involving hundreds of scientists carrying out doping research on thousands of athletes. Particular attention was paid to doping women and adolescent girls because they gained the greatest performance boost from doping.​

I'm behind the times but is the underlined a thing now?

I don't think so, but as @Rolfe explained towards the end of post #9,722 we have to keep certain policies in place in order to prevent recidivism.

The reason I brought up doping young women with testosterone is to show that the advantages of male puberty are not necessarily restricted to males these days—given the prevalence of blockers followed by cross-sex hormones—and to point out that well-crafted elite sports policies have to take this possibility into account, regardless of the subjective identity of the competitors.

 

[p0lka]

Just for giggles now. The toilets in the McDonald's in Fort William.

View attachment 62431

Whoever said they were labelled male and female was right. Also, whoever said that this would not deter trans-identifying men from using the one on the left was also right.

Surely you would have to collect some data before declaring the result?
Maybe some trans-identifying men did indeed see the female sign and then went to the male signed toilet?
Maybe they wouldn't have done so seeing a gender assigned sign?
Also why is no caring about the trans-identifying women? I care about you all.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm behind the times but is the underlined a thing now? can you give me a link to the east germany examples cos it seems a bit iffy, i could be incorrect though.

Doping in East Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't think I would categorize the drug doping they did as going through male puberty, but it definitely did significantly masculinize a lot of women in the pursuit of increased athletic ability. In one case, Andreas Krieger (ne Heidi Krieger) actually underwent a "sex change" operation from female to "male", and attributes the decision at least in part to the masculinizing effects of anabolic steroid use.

That's Andreas on the left. If I didn't know better, I would assume Andreas was biologically male. I won't second-guess Andreas's decision to transition, but he himself thinks what was done to him was a crime, that the doping essentially killed any chance he had at living as a female, and thinks he was essentially deprived of the ability to make the decision to transition on his own.

 

[Elaedith]

Crazy to think how quickly it went from perfectly normal for a woman to complain about males in female spaces to a "hate incident" which might be seen as gross misconduct. I'm beginning to understand why social conservatives reflexively refuse all progressive demands for policy change, given how gay marriage (of which I fully approve!) freed up Stonewall to pursue this sort of nonsense.

Fortunately it won't be recorded as an incident of sexual harassment, voyeurism, or exhibitionism because of these changes, therefore it won't be recorded in any statistics, therefore we know that these changes haven't caused any problems such as increased rates of sexual harassment, voyeurism or exhibitionism because if they had it would show in the statistics.