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NY Times Poll: Large Majority of DEMOCRATS Oppose Transgenders in Women's Sports

theprestige said:
How many adjudicated foot races are on record, from the past hundred years? How many adjudicated weight lifting contests? How many hammer throws? How many long jumps and high jumps? How many biathlons?

I'll see your hundreds and hundreds of data bits, and raise you hundreds of thousands of data bits.

Didn't ask, don't care.
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Ha ha ha, whatever dude. It's actually closer to a few thousand data bits, but don't worry.

Ignoring them will easily make them go away.


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AmyStrange said:
You might be right that women might be uninterested in competing against men, but that doesn't mean you should stop the women who do want to kick a mans a***.


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Nobody is trying to stop women who do want to kick a man's ass in competitive sports.

The entire political debate is about whether we should pass laws forcing women to accept men in their leagues whether they like it or not.
 
theprestige said:
Nobody is trying to stop women who do want to kick a man's ass in competitive sports.

The entire political debate is about whether we should pass laws forcing women to accept men in their leagues whether they like it or not.
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I'm against passing laws forcing women to play with or against men.

I think the sports leagues or teams should be the ones deciding, not lawmakers.


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Ron Obvious said:
I don't believe there's any bar against women competing against men anywhere. It's the reverse case where this ban applies.
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That's true, except if you ban trans from competing with or against women, isn't that the same thing?


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theprestige said:
Only because you're intentionally dismissing decades of data showing men kicking women's asses, by an overwhelming amount, and by an overwhelming majority.

Which explains why women are overwhelmingly uninterested in competing against men. Even the women who have beaten men in a single contest have overwhelmingly preferred to pursue their athletic careers in women's leagues.
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Every woman in the WNBA is better at basketball than me. There are women' runners and swimmers that are amazing. They could leave me in the starting blocks. But they still can't compete with the preeminent men in the same sport. The exception might be gymnastics where extra size and weight is a hindrance. My high schools boys basketball team won the Washington State High School Basketball Championship. And no disrespect to WNBA athletes, but that team would crush the best the WNBA has to offer. Serena Williams was the GOAT in Women's Tennis but even she admits she wouldn't be in the top 100 on the Men's tour.

I don't say any of that to demean Women or Women's sports. I can enjoy the competition of a Women's sporting event. But let's be honest. There's a reason we do have segregated sporting events. Sports should be enjoyed by both sexes.

I btw, have no problem with a woman participating in men's sports. If they can do it, then they can do it. So if a biological male that identifies as female wants to compete with other biological males they should be allowed to do that. This leaves them an equal opportunity to participate in sports. The same opportunity which was open to me.
 
Ron Obvious said:
No, not remotely the same thing.
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Really? So banning trans from competing in women's sports isn't the same thing as banning women from competing against them.

Trans competing against women are (or were) men, right?


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AmyStrange said:
Really? So banning trans from competing in women's sports isn't the same thing as banning women from competing against them. Got it.

bwahahahahaha


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Your hysterical laughter isn't helping your case. I'm sure you'll understand the difference if you think about it. Banning men (including "transwomen") from competing in women's divisions isn't the same as women (including "transmen") competing in men's divisions. The latter only affects the women who choose to compete against men who are largely indifferent about that. Forcing women's divisions to accept men (including "transwomen") affects all women competitors in that division.

C'Mon now. This isn't difficult.
 
Ron Obvious said:
Your hysterical laughter isn't helping your case. I'm sure you'll understand the difference if you think about it. Banning men (including "transwomen") from competing in women's divisions isn't the same as women (including "transmen") competing in men's divisions. The latter only affects the women who choose to compete against men who are largely indifferent about that. Forcing women's divisions to accept men (including "transwomen") affects all women competitors in that division.

C'Mon now. This isn't difficult.
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You're right.

I thought your original comment was that women weren't banned from competing against women. My mistake.

I took out the bwahahahaha because you're right, it was stupid.

You're just too fast for me.


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AmyStrange said:
True, but it's not much of an advantage if five women were able to kick his a***! run faster than him.
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He still beat 38 other women so don't try to infer that being male gave him no advantage whatsoever. At best, this single data point is inconclusive.

Having a competitive advantage doesn't mean that ALL men will beat ALL women.
 
psionl0 said:
He still beat 38 other women so don't try to infer that being male gave him no advantage whatsoever. At best, this single data point is inconclusive.

Having a competitive advantage doesn't mean that ALL men will beat ALL women.
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That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Thank you


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AmyStrange said:
Do you Stevie Wonder can beat her too just because he's a man and she's a woman?
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Your argument appears to be that if SOME woman can beat SOME man in SOME sport, then all transwomen should be allowed to participate in women's-only sporting events.
 
Brainster said:
Your argument appears to be that if SOME woman can beat SOME man in SOME sport, then all transwomen should be allowed to participate in women's-only sporting events.
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Nope, try again.

My argument is that I just don't think there should be a law forcing women to allow trans to participate against their will.

I think that should be left up to the sports leagues or teams, and not the lawmakers.

I also don't have any problem with women competing with trans if they want to.


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psionl0 said:
You haven't been arguing that at all. Your argument has been that if some transgender men can be beaten by some women then transgender men have no competitive advantage.
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Yes, I have:

AmyStrange

Post in thread 'NY Times Poll: Large Majority of DEMOCRATS Oppose Transgenders in Women's Sports'

theprestige said:
Nobody is trying to stop women who do want to kick a man's ass in competitive sports.

The entire political debate is about whether we should pass laws forcing women to accept men in their leagues whether they like it or not.
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I'm against passing laws forcing women to play with or against men.

I think the sports leagues or teams should be the ones deciding, not lawmakers.


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psionl0 said:
You haven't been arguing that at all. Your argument has been that if some transgender men can be beaten by some women then transgender men have no competitive advantage.
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...and here:

AmyStrange

Post in thread 'NY Times Poll: Large Majority of DEMOCRATS Oppose Transgenders in Women's Sports'

Orphia Nay said:
True, but we're talking about competitive sport.

Instead of trying to write off-the-cuff general responses to each other that are then taken as laws set in stone, let's talk about at what level of competition you think trans women should be or should not be allowed to compete against women, and in basketball, your chosen example.

Do you really think transwomen should be allowed to compete against women in the NBA? What about in high school?
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Good points.

If folks want to ban trans from women's sports, fine, but if the teams themselves (professional or educational) don't care...


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For your convenience and mine, here are the transcripts from both comments:

TODAY (1-26) @1:34 pm

I'm against passing laws forcing women to play with or against men.

I think the sports leagues or teams should be the ones deciding, not lawmakers.


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YESTERDAY (1-25) @8:37 pm

Good points.

If folks want to ban trans from women's sports, fine, but if the teams themselves (professional or educational) don't care, then who am I to tell them they shouldn't do it?

And if the teams don't want trans on their team, then who am I to force them to do it.

I also don't like men trying to secretly be women and not be up front about it with the rest of the team. That's not fair either (and pretty disgusting too).

Someone on here (I think it was theprestige) said that MLB was open to women being major league ball players, so I guess they'd also be open to a trans being one too.

These are just my opinions. Your mileage may vary of course.


ETA: From the site Brainster gave me, there are a lot of stories about women (and girls) who were threatened to keep a trans identity secret, and if that's true (which I suspect it is), then THAT REALLY, REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!


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Ron Obvious said:
Your hysterical laughter isn't helping your case. I'm sure you'll understand the difference if you think about it. Banning men (including "transwomen") from competing in women's divisions isn't the same as women (including "transmen") competing in men's divisions. The latter only affects the women who choose to compete against men who are largely indifferent about that. Forcing women's divisions to accept men (including "transwomen") affects all women competitors in that division.

C'Mon now. This isn't difficult.
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Sorry, this comment:

"I thought your original comment was that women weren't banned from competing against women."

should read like this instead:

"I thought your original comment was that women weren't banned from competing against MEN."


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AmyStrange said:
Yes, I have:
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No you haven't. You made a big noise about Kylie Small coming 6th. That would be irrelevant if you weren't arguing that transgender men don't have a competitive advantage.

AmyStrange said:
AmyStrange

Post in thread 'NY Times Poll: Large Majority of DEMOCRATS Oppose Transgenders in Women's Sports'

theprestige said:
Nobody is trying to stop women who do want to kick a man's ass in competitive sports.

The entire political debate is about whether we should pass laws forcing women to accept men in their leagues whether they like it or not.
Click to expand...


I'm against passing laws forcing women to play with or against men.

I think the sports leagues or teams should be the ones deciding, not lawmakers.


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I agree that there should not be a national law that either compels or bars women's sporting clubs from accepting transgender males in their ranks (but that is a different argument entirely).
 
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