Merged Sylvia Browne passed away this morning

[marplots]

A lot of self-righteousness and jealousy here. I guess it's comforting for some to tell themselves the only thing preventing them from being as rich and famous as Sylvia Browne is their own rarefied sense of morality.
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Self-righteousness, yes. Jealousy, no. She wasn't famous so much as infamous; pity and disgust are better descriptions.

 

[tuxcat]

I won't pretend to guess about Sylvia in particular, but I was under the impression that you can delude/train yourself into being a good cold reader while still believing that's just how your "power" works.

Didn't we have someone here that described how he used to do tarot and only later learned that part of the technique he had developed was cold reading?

My £0.02 - I used to think I was a "medium" after dabbling in all sorts of superstition. I was genuinely convinced that I was able to speak to the dead. A simple test proved me wrong. I initially made up all sorts of excuses but then finally accepted it. Looking back, it's scorching hot reading, cold reading, victims giving information without realising it and confirmation bias in my victims (although I never did charge any of them but that doesn't excuse what I did so I regard them as victims).

 

[ExMinister]

She gave people advice--often for a fee--about how to run their lives, but as to the actual circumstances of their situations, she didn't have the first goddamned clue.

She sold books and talks about heaven and the afterlife, but on those subjects, she didn't have the first goddamned clue.

She reported messages from people who where dead, when in fact she didn't have the first goddamned clue.

She announced the likes and dislikes and desires and attributes of an Almighty power, but in reality she didn't have the first goddamned clue.

She touted an ability to solve unsolvable crimes, but the evidence actually supported the conclusion that she didn't have the first goddamned clue.

She dispensed recommendations with respect to health and medicine; not only was she without training or qualification, she didn't have the first goddamned clue.

Whether she was sincere in her beliefs in her own capabilities is no defense. Nor is it a defense that she was nice or caring or had other redeeming qualities. Her meal ticket in life was to publicly and adamantly pretend to know things that she in fact did not know.

BTW, while this post may not specifically be directed at me, I do want to say I agree with you here and apologize if borrowing your format for the post I made the day Sylvia died made it seem like it was in rebuttal to your post. It actually wasn't.

Just to be clear, my post was in no way meant to defend Sylvia. I agree that whether or not she was at times sincere or nice or caring has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the damage done by the false information provided in psychic readings is wrong.

That is a completely separate issue from the one I was discussing, which is that Sylvia Browne was someone with a complicated set of characteristics that made her a more difficult person to understand.

Somewhere between the skeptics who are convinced she is a deliberate fraud and the believers who think she was a sincere spiritual teacher lies the truth, but it has never been at all easy, for someone who has known her personally, and by this I mean known her personally over a span of several years beyond the level of acquaintance of the average minister, to sort it out.

 

[Spindrift]

A lot of self-righteousness and jealousy here. I guess it's comforting for some to tell themselves the only thing preventing them from being as rich and famous as Sylvia Browne is their own rarefied sense of morality.

Where Sylvia Browne is concerned it's pretty easy to be self-righteous.

Jealously? Why would one want to be a despicable human being?

What's comforting is that Sylvia will no longer be getting rich and famous by preying upon gullible people with her false predictions and fraudulent 'readings'.

 

[HumanityBlues]

You know, I find it ironic that the family would even expect condolences. Why are they even sad? If I remember correctly, several of her other family members have the same "gift" as Slyvia Browne does to speak to the "other side". So what's the big deal? Everything is better on the "other side" and Browne's relatives can speak to her any time they want. Her death is a win-win. Plus, I recall during an appearance on the Montel Williams Show that Sylvia Browne said we are all our 30-year-old selves on the "other side". So Sylvia now has the great benefit of being younger and healthier.

 

[HumanityBlues]

BTW, while this post may not specifically be directed at me, I do want to say I agree with you here and apologize if borrowing your format for the post I made the day Sylvia died made it seem like it was in rebuttal to your post. It actually wasn't.

Just to be clear, my post was in no way meant to defend Sylvia. I agree that whether or not she was at times sincere or nice or caring has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the damage done by the false information provided in psychic readings is wrong.

That is a completely separate issue from the one I was discussing, which is that Sylvia Browne was someone with a complicated set of characteristics that made her a more difficult person to understand.

Somewhere between the skeptics who are convinced she is a deliberate fraud and the believers who think she was a sincere spiritual teacher lies the truth, but it has never been at all easy, for someone who has known her personally, and by this I mean known her personally over a span of several years beyond the level of acquaintance of the average minister, to sort it out.

I'm pretty sure she knew she was a fraud. This is certainly relevant.

 

[Kahalachan]

I like Randi's last sentence.


Edit. Someone mentioned Sylvia's millions. What is the value of her estate? I suggest it is not worth much.

I got a message from Sylvia today. She is reaching out to me and she wants those millions sent to me.

A lot of self-righteousness and jealousy here. I guess it's comforting for some to tell themselves the only thing preventing them from being as rich and famous as Sylvia Browne is their own rarefied sense of morality.
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Yeah I'm so jealous. I wish I could be a fat ugly liar.

It's not comforting she's dead. The solution is when millions of idiots wise up. Those millions of idiots will just turn to the next con artist.

 

[ExMinister]

I'm pretty sure she knew she was a fraud. This is certainly relevant.

I know Robert really likes Gary and Ree Dufresne, but I have never been completely convinced by his sincerity. Sylvia had said for years publically that he was an evil man who was abusive. There was obviously a great deal of hostility between them. How then can you know, for certain, this wasn't an opportunity for him to clear his name and exact some revenge?

Apologies to Gary if that is untrue, but there are always two sides to every story, and it really just comes down to his word against hers. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. But there is that little shred of doubt in my mind, and no evidence either way, so this story has never swayed me, any more than her version of what happened during their marriage would.

 

[Brown]

BTW, while this post may not specifically be directed at me, I do want to say I agree with you here and apologize if borrowing your format for the post I made the day Sylvia died made it seem like it was in rebuttal to your post. It actually wasn't.

My friend, the one who should apologize is me. I was not directing my comments at you nor upset with you in any way. I'm sorry I did not make that clear. (I was unhappy with someone, but not you.)

On the contrary, I have found that your comments about Browne have been some of the most thoughtful and insightful of all.

Browne, I expect, did not start out as a swindler; I suppose she originally believed that she actually had some sort of ability or knowledge, and after convincing herself, she was able to convince others.

But as best I can tell, she really had no special talent. And I strongly suspect that she was aware of her limitations, but could not come clean because the money and celebrity status were just too darn good. It is conceivable that she actually felt she was in the business of helping others, and her heart was in the right place.

But this is not saying much, I feel. She was a pretender, a passer-off of nonsense as truth, a BS artist. Having one's heart in the right place is not much of a redeeming virtue when nearly every word that comes from you is baseless or false.

 

[desertgal]

To each their own. Wish ill will all you want.

"Wish ill"? Not being remorseful over her death is not wishing ill. Commenting that she purposely hurt people within her lifetime is not wishing ill. Even dancing on her grave is not wishing ill.

There is no wishing ill upon or for Sylvia Browne. She's dead.

 

[desertgal]

A lot of self-righteousness...

Self righteousness? Example?

...and jealousy here.

Jealousy of what, exactly?

I guess it's comforting for some to tell themselves the only thing preventing them from being as rich and famous as Sylvia Browne is their own rarefied sense of morality.

Is her brand of "fame" a goal everyone should aspire to? For that matter, why the presumption that everyone desires to be famous? And why is a sense of morality both "rarefied" and something to be mocked?

 

[ExMinister]

Browne, I expect, did not start out as a swindler; I suppose she originally believed that she actually had some sort of ability or knowledge, and after convincing herself, she was able to convince others.

But as best I can tell, she really had no special talent. And I strongly suspect that she was aware of her limitations, but could not come clean because the money and celebrity status were just too darn good. It is conceivable that she actually felt she was in the business of helping others, and her heart was in the right place.

But this is not saying much, I feel. She was a pretender, a passer-off of nonsense as truth, a BS artist. Having one's heart in the right place is not much of a redeeming virtue when nearly every word that comes from you is baseless or false.

You put this into words perfectly.

And I think what you said in those last two paragraphs is exactly right.

 

[rjh01]

I admit, I had two thoughts when I read about her death - neither very nice. The first was "well, she won't con anyone any more." The second was "drat, and I never got to try to trick her." When I first read SSB, I had a daydream of asking her questions that sound legit, but are really trick questions. Things like:
1) What kind of kids will I have? (I'm sterile.)
2) Why did my son have to die? (The "son" in question was a 14-year old dog who had to be put to sleep because the disks in his back calcified and he could not move without pain.)

This page would entertain people like you http://www.stopsylvia.com/articles/ispeakwithbrowne.shtml

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Some thoughts about the late Mrs. Browne.

As despicable as her behavior often was and as patently obvious as her scam was, there was something about her that...drew you in. Especially in person and when she was onstage. She did have that quality that cult leaders, con artists, snake oil salesmen and demagogues often have.

Having seen her perform in person once as part of my research, she did have a kind of charisma and a kind of earthy charm. You saw how she was able to victimize people. Her influence on people- it was a bit akin to how abused children often feel protective towards the abuser, identify with him/her and defend him/her directly against their own interests. She had that effect on people, especially weak ones. She could- I'm serious- be pretty funny, witty and sort of charming. I saw why people who had met her in person often described her as being nice. Really. She could come off that way.

Obviously, all of that made her even more dangerous.

As for Montel, what a smooth talker and what a charismatic presence. He could charm the pants off you and, if he talked long enough, convince you that the grass was blue and the moon was made of cheese. This guy missed his calling. He would have made a first-class snake oil salesman, had he been born in another era. That was my impression of him, anyway.

Tom Cruise, who I met once 10 years ago, came off similarly. No one knows how to work a crowd of people like he does. Those couch-jumping antics people called creepy, psychotic, lacking in judgment and vastly over the top? They don't work on TV and are mocked when seen on the small screen- but in person, that's another story. When he kissed Katie Holmes, laughed maniacally and declared his love of her in person, he had the whole audience (myself among them) roaring with genuine delight and wholeheartedly cheering him on. He swept the entire place- men and women- off their feet with his performance. What a charmer. You don't get a cultish vibe from him at all.

 

[cullennz]

I hate to break it to you but with the Tom Cruise thing, to me he just came across as an idiot and SB just came across as full of excrement.

My only guess is that people can be easily manipulated.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

No. Trust me. You weren't there. With Cruise, what looked weird and foolish from a distance was completely magnetic and adorable in real life.

I wouldn't have believed it myself - so I understand you rolling your eyes. Nevertheless, it is true. Maybe it's the power of showmanship but being face-to-face with him was different than seeing it on a computer or TV screen.

On another note, TMZ covered Browne's death:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwst_6HRqrk

Oh man, Sylvia Browne seems to have accomplished one miracle after all. And that is making me like something that TMZ did, for once.

 

[cullennz]

I meet him while he was filming the samurai movie here.

While I'll admit he seemed a nice enough bloke I wouldn't go out of my way to meet him again.

 

[Tricky]

A lot of self-righteousness and jealousy here. I guess it's comforting for some to tell themselves the only thing preventing them from being as rich and famous as Sylvia Browne is their own rarefied sense of morality.

I suppose there are some here who wish they had as much money as Browne had. However, I think there are few here who would sacrifice their "rarified sense of morality" to sink to the depths that she did in order to get it. If you think that sort of morality is stupid, then I pity anyone who trusts you.

 

[cullennz]

Sorry, but had to share this as I thought it was quite funny.

I was just looking at her wiki talk page and saw this from when the initial news was being discussed.

Her own website is stating she has died. http://www.sylviabrowne.com/ --Dmol (talk) 01:51, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Not sure it's a good idea to take her word for it. The record shows several people she said were dead were in fact alive. The Daily News, however, is a reasonable source reporting that her son Chris confirmed her death. - Nunh-huh 02:05, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

If someone on here is Nunh-huh, you have made my morning

 

[dafydd]

Tom Cruise, who I met once 10 years ago, came off similarly. No one knows how to work a crowd of people like he does. Those couch-jumping antics people called creepy, psychotic, lacking in judgment and vastly over the top? They don't work on TV and are mocked when seen on the small screen- but in person, that's another story. When he kissed Katie Holmes, laughed maniacally and declared his love of her in person, he had the whole audience (myself among them) roaring with genuine delight and wholeheartedly cheering him on. He swept the entire place- men and women- off their feet with his performance. What a charmer. You don't get a cultish vibe from him at all.

Cults don't recruit using club-footed people in black cloaks and carrying a bottle with a skull on it.