Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[abaddon]

Rocking the boat has been the reason for the stagnation of knowledge as long as man has been "civilized." Progress and leeches have been fought tooth and nail forever.

Doctor says FLU VACCINE will cause 60,000 deaths in France alone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXAK_6iZbH0


Flu Vaccine Exposed: Think Twice!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
NR=1&v=zCBlxqmOMKM&feature=endscreen


Note 7 minutes and 30 seconds in.




Mods.

This thread is about the covering up of the danger of vaccines. Not just the connection of vaccines and autism.

YAY. Back to the ignorant university of youtube, with added mod appeal.

<SNIP>

Edited by Locknar: 

SNIPed, breach of rule 12.

 

[000063]

Rocking the boat has been the reason for the stagnation of knowledge as long as man has been "civilized." Progress and leeches have been fought tooth and nail forever.

Doctor says FLU VACCINE will cause 60,000 deaths in France alone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXAK_6iZbH0

I thought you said all the doctors were in on it. Also, dodge.

Flu Vaccine Exposed: Think Twice!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
NR=1&v=zCBlxqmOMKM&feature=endscreen


Note 7 minutes and 30 seconds in.

So, because people say something isn't true, that means it is true? If the media doesn't care about high-level conspiracies, what was all that about Bernie Madoff?

Mods.

This thread is about the covering up of the danger of vaccines. Not just the connection of vaccines and autism.

The non-existent connection you have been entirely unable to prove and repeatedly dodge questions about, yes.

I note that none of the claims in the quote are actually sourced. Also, Zoloft is an anti-depressant, not a vaccine.

I also note that you tend to these textwalls right after someone asks you a question you don't want to answer.

 

[Estellea]

Plenty of medical people have determined an association between MMR and autism, thimerosal and autism or the number of vaccines given and autism.

1 out 100 children are stricken with autism. That's many millions of children world wide stricken with autism and all world's medical gurus can't figure out why.

The MSM is ignoring both.

Clayton, please name these "medical people" and their publications. Also, children aren't "stricken" with autism; they are born with it. Please stop using such offensive language to describe people you know nothing about.

Plenty of research on autism aetiology; it just doesn't support your paradigm.

Este

 

[Tolls]

Does MSM mean the mainstream media? Am I right in thinking that you are claiming that the mainstream media is ignoring those claims? What a laughable suggestion. There's a reason Ben Goldacre called it the media's MMR hoax: http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/

He'll ignore that because it doesn't fit in with his world view, or something.

Huge swathes fo the media in the UK were jumping on the Daily Mail's bandwagon. Even, god help us, Private Eye.

 

[excaza]

I have to admit I was expecting much more of a fuss from Clayton over the Meningitis outbreak

 

[TheRedWorm]

Hey Clay,

How much of what would it take for you to never bring up this anti-vaxx stuff ever again?

 

[pakeha]

Plenty of medical people have determined an association between MMR and autism, thimerosal and autism or the number of vaccines given and autism.

1 out 100 children are stricken with autism. That's many millions of children world wide stricken with autism and all world's medical gurus can't figure out why.

The MSM is ignoring both.

Oh, CM.
Plenty of medical people?
Who are they?

... Also, children aren't "stricken" with autism; they are born with it. Please stop using such offensive language to describe people you know nothing about.

Plenty of research on autism aetiology; it just doesn't support your paradigm.

Este

^
This.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I thought you said all the doctors were in on it. Also, dodge.


So, because people say something isn't true, that means it is true? If the media doesn't care about high-level conspiracies, what was all that about Bernie Madoff?

Bernie had been scamming and the "authorities" and his buddies knew about his magic money for decades.
A sacrificial lamb/scapegoat was needed satiate the fish in WSSL(Wall Street Scam Land) and protect the big shark in the ponzi scheme.

Jeffry M. Picower (May 5, 1942– October 25, 2009)[2][3] was an [4][5] American investor involved in the Madoff investment scandal. He appears to have been the largest beneficiary of Madoff's Ponzi scheme, and his estate settled the claims against it for $7.2 billion.[6][7][8]

 

[Clayton Moore]

Oh, CM.
Plenty of medical people?
Who are they?

Read the many links I've provided.


Today's questioners of vaccines are the persecuted heretics of yesteryear.

 

[LSSBB]

Read the many links I've provided.


Today's questioners of vaccines are the persecuted heretics of yesteryear.

Yeah, here's one of your persecuted heretics, the San Francisco Examiner .

 

[Clayton Moore]

Does MSM mean the mainstream media? Am I right in thinking that you are claiming that the mainstream media is ignoring those claims? What a laughable suggestion. There's a reason Ben Goldacre called it the media's MMR hoax: http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Pharma

Bad Pharma is a book by Ben Goldacre about the corrupt behaviour of the modern pharmaceutical industry. It was first published by the Fourth Estate imprint of HarperCollins in 2012.

So Bad Pharma is BAD when they produce and profit drugs but beyond reproach when the produce and profit from vaccines?

 

[000063]

Bernie had been scamming and the "authorities" and his buddies knew about his magic money for decades.
A sacrificial lamb/scapegoat was needed satiate the fish in WSSL(Wall Street Scam Land) and protect the big shark in the ponzi scheme.

I like how you almost inevitably respond to the logic illustration instead of the actual main point of the post. Let me summarize;

1. The docs can't be "in on it" and simultaneously investigating.
2. Someone making a claim does not make it true.
3. The media cares about high level conspiracies. It seems the hoi polloi like news about the mighty being bought low.
4. You can't prove any vaxx/autism connection and often dodge questions regarding your claims.
5. You quoted things without sources.
6. Zoloft is an anti-depressant, not a vaccine.
7. You have a tendency to spam walls of text right after someone asks you a question you don't want to answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Pharma



So Bad Pharma is BAD when they produce and profit drugs but beyond reproach when the produce and profit from vaccines?

62 pages, and you haven't actually been able to demonstrate anything seriously wrong with vaccines. Of course, what would be even better for Big Pharma's collective wallet would be if vaccines were safe and they didn't have to worry about costly tort lawsuits. I mean, it's not like they do extensive testing to try and avoid such lawsuits or anything.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Clayton, if you are going to quote Ben Goldacre, start by reading the Bad Science book, the chapter about the MMR hoax. Then read Bad Pharma to find out which practices are being condemned, rather than assuming that some bad practice justifies all claims of bad practice.


Heck, tweet or email Goldacre for his opinion.

 

[Estellea]

Read the many links I've provided.


Today's questioners of vaccines are the persecuted heretics of yesteryear.

No Clayton, it doesn't work like that particularly when you take TooToob dumps on us. Provide the first authors' name and publication. PMID number will do. Plenty of research regarding adverse effects of vaccines in the published literature and none of them have lost their jobs, their licenses and their countries. The difference between them and your "heretics" is that they didn't commit fraud and abuse special needs children.

Este

 

[Estellea]

Clayton, if you are going to quote Ben Goldacre, start by reading the Bad Science book, the chapter about the MMR hoax. Then read Bad Pharma to find out which practices are being condemned, rather than assuming that some bad practice justifies all claims of bad practice.


Heck, tweet or email Goldacre for his opinion.

The book isn't even available in the U.S. and no doubt Clayton hasn't even read it and it's already being abused by the twoo believers. What a shame; the book is excellent and illustrates the problems with drug testing and publication with ya know, actual evidence and has the potential to force evidence-based medicine to put its money where its mouth is.

Este

 

[zooterkin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Pharma



So Bad Pharma is BAD when they produce and profit drugs but beyond reproach when the produce and profit from vaccines?

As Ben Goldacre is known for saying, I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

You do know that he's a practicing GP in the National Health Service, regularly recommending vaccinations, don't you?

 

[Andy_Ross]

You do know that he's a practicing GP in the National Health Service, regularly recommending vaccinations, don't you?

Only Practicing?. Tell him to come back when he can do it.

 

[pakeha]

Read the many links I've provided. ...

Well, I have CM, I have.
Would you mind re-posting who those 'many medical people' for new-comers to the thread?

 

[jdc324]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Pharma



So Bad Pharma is BAD when they produce and profit drugs but beyond reproach when the produce and profit from vaccines?

No, Big Pharma is bad not when they produce and profit from drugs (there would be no medicine without medicines) but when they play naughty tricks with the evidence or their marketing is misleading.

And who has ever said that they're 'beyond reproach' in any field? That sounds like a straw man to me. I certainly think there are legitimate criticisms to be made - for example some researchers have been critical of the way that one of the HPV vaccines has been marketed. (The same researchers support the HPV vaccines and think they are safe & effective - but they are unhappy with some of the marketing.)

Ben Goldacre talks about the actual problems in medicine, rather than the problems that you imagine exist. As he says in the introduction to Bad Pharma:

This isn’t a simple story of cartoonish evil, and there will be no conspiracy theories. Drug companies are not witholding the secret to curing cancer, nor are they killing us all with vaccines.

 

[tynan]

Plenty of medical people have determined an association between MMR and autism . . .

. . . millions of children world wide stricken with autism and all world's medical gurus can't figure out why.

So there are a large amount of "medical people" who know that MMR causes autism - and - "all world's medical gurus can't figure out why".

I can only guess from these two statement that "medical people" and "medical gurus" are two different groups, are you willing to define your terms here ?