The Iraq Invasion. Leaving aside the WMD issue, was it really worth it?

New Ager, you are not being helpful.

Was it worth it? I really don't know. Let's discuss that in 20 or 30 years. But I agree with Undesired Walrus that it's inappropriate to place the focus on the question of whether or not Americans had been lied to.

All I know is that it would be wise for the next US president to follow Colin Powell's advice: If you break it, you own it.
 
Matteo Martini said:
Facts:
1) No connections between Iraq and AlQaeda;
2) No WMD in Iraq - the Bush adm lied on this;
3) Bush and Cheney both worked/have connections with the oil industry;
4) The US are, by far, the no1 consumer of oil;
5) Iraq has one of the world biggest reserves;

err..
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You missed:

6) Oil companies have logged record profits since the occupation.
 
danielk said:
New Ager, you are not being helpful.

Was it worth it? I really don't know. Let's discuss that in 20 or 30 years. But I agree with Undesired Walrus that it's inappropriate to place the focus on the question of whether or not Americans had been lied to.
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We are talking about hundreds of thousands of (innocent?) people dead in an unneccesary war.
How can anyone have the slightest doubt that it was a crime?
I can see that many Americans can have been swayed by the terrorist attacks, so, I do not really blame on them that much if they were pro-war in 2001, but, today is 2008, and it has been clear that they were all lies
 
Has the oil production in Iraq reached pre-war levels yet?

Just asking.
 
danielk said:
Was it worth it? I really don't know. Let's discuss that in 20 or 30 years. But I agree with Undesired Walrus that it's inappropriate to place the focus on the question of whether or not Americans had been lied to.

All I know is that it would be wise for the next US president to follow Colin Powell's advice: If you break it, you own it.
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I just wish that we'd remember, ultimately, that the Iraqis own it, all of it... it isn't about us, or at least it shouldn't be about us.
 
danielk said:
All I know is that it would be wise for the next US president to follow Colin Powell's advice: If you break it, you own it.
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I agree with you.
It's a shame Powell didn't heed his own wise advice. He broke it then retired on a nice pension.
 
JoeEllison said:
You missed:

6) Oil companies have logged record profits since the occupation.
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I am not really sure that a USD100 per gallon oil is a good thing or bad for the oil indutry, let alone the world economy, however, the plan was simple: go to Iraq, kill the bad Saddam, "free" the Iraqis, put a foot in their land and everybody would have been happy.
US would have cheap oil and a friendly government.
Things did not go precisely that way..
 
danielk said:
Exactly. That was Undesired Walrus' point.
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Part of the problem is that a lot of the people in charge have shielded themselves from dealing with the realities of Iraq because of political ideology. Part of the flaw in their plan was that they did a whole lot of believing, and not nearly enough thinking and adapting and considering the overall situation as it developed. They have further avoided dealing with problems by claiming that any and all criticism is solely politically based, and has no relation to reality.

Yeah, it is Bush and the Republicans(with plenty of complicit Democrats) who got us into this current mess. That doesn't mean we're calling it a mess BECAUSE they're Republicans. We don't pretend that history began on 9-11, or when Bush was elected. Many of us aren't particularly impressed with the way the last 5-6 presidents have dealt with the Middle East. If a Democrat is elected president, we won't magically think Iraq is all better... and I would hope that the Republicans won't automatically blame the new president for not fixing the problems in Iraq in the first 100 days.
 
New Ager said:
It seems no one was concerned about the Iraqi's dying under Saddam, but now are so concerned about people dying for the freedom of their country. I wonder why?
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This is exactly what I am talking about, here and in the other thread. With all due respect, How can you possibly dare to make this claim when we leave people all over the world to the utter mercy and ferocity of their dictators?

Standard answer: Because their leader did not invade two of their neighbours.

Fine. But for God sake, stop claiming this is out of compassion for the people's suffering under a dictator.

Again, with all due respect, stop grabbing that cake and eating it.
 
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New Ager said:
Getting rid of a dictatorship and giving a country a chance of freedom is such a waste of our time.

Maybe we could spend our time doing something worthwhile like getting rid of global warming.
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Or better, yet, stop the dictators of Burma from murdering their people, keeping their democratic leader under house arrest, and having the largest child army on the planet.

That's actually a good description of liberalism.
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I'm not particularly liberal.

But I have to say, both yours, and Ron's repeated claims bashing liberals makes both of you appear frustrating, bitter, and incompetent with rational insight. Quit these daft claims against the 'looney left' and grow a backbone to defeat an ideology with words that don't contain the manipulated rantings of a playground bully.

Sheesh..
 
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danielk said:
All I know is that it would be wise for the next US president to follow Colin Powell's advice: If you break it, you own it.
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Shame our next President is not Powell.

The Taliban even have a nifty little song for him they sing with Al Qeada (Constantly).

And we will return to Kabul!
Kaabul!
Not Bush and nor Powell!
Powell!

Sounds more in tune with 'La Bush Wa La Poweeeeell!' though.:boggled:
 
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JoeEllison said:
I'm afraid that Powell sold out his credibility for the Bush administration... which is a shame, because I used to have some respect for him.
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We know he had that last minute talk with Bush to try to convince him not to go to war. To achieve that position in which you are in that capability, I suppose you have to do a few powerpoint presentations with satellite images of an Iraqi scientist pissing into an unused test tube.

He still retains my respect.
 
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One death is a tragedy, any more is just a statistic- Stalin

Kill a man and you're a murder, kill many men and you're a hero, kill them all and you're a conqueror!
 
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