MirageMemories: Care to discuss?

[jaydeehess]

I'm forever amused by how often skeptics make the claim that if the story is wrong the professionals will come running, screaming "no way!"

It certainly is the case in the realm of physics. One need only look to the controvesy about string theory. Those who disagree have hardly been silent on the issue.

 

[Miragememories]

You appear to still be operating under the faulty assumption that the president was in any real, immediate danger while in a room filled with small children. Were one of the kids going to jump up and stab him?

If that is the case The Almond, the SS knew alot more than would have been expected of them that early into the events of 9/11!

My expectation would be they would act first, ask questions later.

Since the PRESIDENT's location had been well publicized in advance how could they be so damn sure he was safe staying in his public school sanctuary? The extent of the danger wasn't clearly defined at that point in time and caution would seem to be the more prudent approach rather than risking the possibility, that in the 4 days the president's location had been made public, the terrorists might have located that public school on the map.

MM

 

[Miragememories]

It certainly is the case in the realm of physics. One need only look to the controvesy about string theory. Those who disagree have hardly been silent on the issue.

Wow! Now there's an issue frought with danger!

Those ballsy physicists, who would have thought.

MM

 

[jaydeehess]

Wow! Now there's an issue frought with danger!

Those ballsy physicists, who would have thought.

MM

But engineers must be different otherwise your assumptions all fall apart.

 

[Pardalis]

Delude yourselves all you want but the fact remains few people are willing to stick their necks out against the establishment when it means risk to themselves, their families, their jobs and their friendships.

what about the structural engeneers in other countries, you know somewhere around here?:

 

[CosCos]

I have a sneaking suspicion that CTists' assumption of Secret Service "SOPs" is derived from movies such as In the Line of Fire and the little video snippet from the attempted assassination on Reagan. You know, a bunch of guys with fingers pressed to their ears running and screaming Go Go Go Go Go!!

Anyone noticing a new attempt at plausible deniability amongst this new crop of CTists? Where once it was JAQing off, now it's "I'm just speculating maaaan, you can't expect me to provide evidence of anything when I'm just speculating maaaaaaaaaaan."

Can I "speculate" that MM is a cross-dressing monkey lover? Hey I'm just ask....I mean.....


Edited cuz I assassinated the spelling of "assassination."

 

[johnny karate]

Or maybe, just maybe Davie lad, experts don't comment unless they were part of the process from the very beginning.

I'm forever amused by how often skeptics make the claim that if the story is wrong the professionals will come running, screaming "no way!"

The world I live in says people no matter what their stripe, do not contradict the establishment if they know it entails risk with no foreseeable benefit. Let the next guy be the hero.

I took engineering in college. Structural engineering was my best grade. I wouldn't for a moment expect people in the profession to challenge the NIST findings without some assurance that it wouldn't bite them in the ass.

Delude yourselves all you want but the fact remains few people are willing to stick their necks out against the establishment when it means risk to themselves, their families, their jobs and their friendships.

This is the same tired, old decomposing corpse of a horse MM has been flogging since I was on the LC Forum debating with him.

He finds absolutely nothing odd about the fact that not a single structural engineer on the face of the planet has expressed even the minorest of quibbles with the offical story.

He finds absolutely nothing odd about that fact that all of these structural engineers independently and yet uninamously chose to remain silent in the face of an obvious and dastardly plot to kill 3,000 innocent people.

He attributes this to the "influence" of the U.S. government, whose power, according to his theory, extends globally. As a matter of fact, while on the LC Forum, I asked him how this accounted for structural engineers in an enemy nation like North Korea. This was his reasoned and well-thought out response:

Regarding your North Korean structural engineer, I'm not aware that civilians in North Korea, or North Korea for that matter, can connect to the internet?

Besides submitting contrary reports from structural engineers, don't you suppose that enemy nations, if they had internet access would use the opportunity for propaganda attacks on every subject imaginable??

I haven't noticed any North Korean presence on the internet.

 

[stateofgrace]

If that is the case The Almond, the SS knew alot more than would have been expected of them that early into the events of 9/11!

My expectation would be they would act first, ask questions later.

Since the PRESIDENT's location had been well publicized in advance how could they be so damn sure he was safe staying in his public school sanctuary? The extent of the danger wasn't clearly defined at that point in time and caution would seem to be the more prudent approach rather than risking the possibility, that in the 4 days the president's location had been made public, the terrorists might have located that public school on the map.

MM

Your expectation of what the secret service should and should not do in a given situation is irrelevant.
You are talking about highly trained, highly dedicated individuals, whose profession is to protect the most important people on the planet. This is their job; this is what these people do, everyday.

You are in no position whatsoever to question the judgement calls these individuals made in that school, because you are not a highly trained professional.

The building was secure, the president was in not immediate danger so they had absolutely no reason to move him, manhandle him or advise he did anything.
The fact that Bush sat their like a stuffed dumby while the US was under attack is prove, if anything that he did not have a clue that what was going on, let alone have fore knowledge of it.

 

[fezzic]

Maybe I'm a victim of propaganda but my impression was that the SS placed their primary existence on protecting the PRESIDENT.

On 9/11 they hussled the VICE PRESIDENT to the command bunker. That's fine, makes sense to me. It was being precautionary when conditions were still supposedly unknown and developing.

But when it comes to the office of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES of AMERICA, the most powerful country in the whole wide world, I don't expect the Secret Service to give the reading of a goat story to school children more import than the immediate movement of the PRESIDENT to any location that has not been publicized. If that sounds illogical, I'm sorry, but when I went to school, 2 + 2 still equaled 4.

MM

They protect him, they also have to obey his lawful orders. If the Secret Service wanted to immediately move the President of the United States and he said, "my reading of this story to these kids is IMPORTANT and you will standby", the secret service is going to stand by. Note that they won't stop doing their job of protecting the President, but they can't really force him to go anywhere. Well they can but then the Agent in Charge is answerable for his actions and in the absence of a clear and present danger (like a group of armed presumably hostile people approaching the school. Hijacked aircraft a good many hundreds of miles away probably don't quite count) it might be a pretty career killing act.

The Secret Service probably advised the Vice President that moving to the White House bunker was a good idea and it is pretty certain that he agreed. If he had said, "I am not going to hide in no hole in the ground while other Americans are fighting for their lives" and decided to stay in Blair House (or wherever), then that's where he'll stay and the Secret Service would then try to secure his location as best they can.

Just a thought, but considering that there were children there, it is not unreasonable that the AIC might have advised the President to keep on reading to them rather than possibly frighten them by having the SS with guns at the ready come and hustle him into another room. Meanwhile, the SS could recheck the perimeter and make preparation to return to AF1, get more info on what was happening, etc.

 

[T.A.M.]

MM, like all the truthers, have a world vision where all professionals are spineless corruptable men and women, whose opinion is up for sale to the highest bidder or biggest stick wielder...regardless of the issue, its magnitude/importance.

It is a sick, twisted, and ultimately sad world view. I dont know how they can stand to live in a world within this view, but they do...

The REAL WORLD IS NOT LIKE THIS.

TAM

 

[GlennB]

...
Just a thought, but considering that there were children there, it is not unreasonable that the AIC might have advised the President to keep on reading to them rather than possibly frighten them by having the SS with guns at the ready come and hustle him into another room. Meanwhile, the SS could recheck the perimeter and make preparation to return to AF1, get more info on what was happening, etc.

Or, maybe, when faced with a real-life crisis and the need to act or make a vital decision, he might have just sat there like the bemused rabbit-in-the-headlights that he really is at heart?

Seems like an equally good explanation.

p.s. I hate Blair too.

 

[Miragememories]

Your expectation of what the secret service should and should not do in a given situation is irrelevant.
You are talking about highly trained, highly dedicated individuals, whose profession is to protect the most important people on the planet. This is their job; this is what these people do, everyday.

You are in no position whatsoever to question the judgement calls these individuals made in that school, because you are not a highly trained professional.

The building was secure, the president was in not immediate danger so they had absolutely no reason to move him, manhandle him or advise he did anything.
The fact that Bush sat their like a stuffed dumby while the US was under attack is prove, if anything that he did not have a clue that what was going on, let alone have fore knowledge of it.

Now we get to the lame desperate responses from people too lazy to read what they are responding to.

If you are an American agent of the SS, who is the most important person you have to protect? Duh.

If you have the most important person you are sworn to protect in your custody, in a well publicized location, during a developing National Security situation involving large hijacked airliners being used as missiles, would the thought not occur to you that until you know the complete picture, maybe, just maybe it would be prudent to move this most important person to a location unpublicized to the general public and would be terrorists? Would it not occur to you that the PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES might be a popular target selection for terrorists? Is it a risk the manual would suggest taking?

The stuff you folks will say just to avoid conceding something is odd.

MM

 

[T.A.M.]

Concede what? You are SPECULATING you moron. What is there to concede. If you havent got the answer from the horses mouth, than you are speculating...which is practically worthless.

TAM

 

[Miragememories]

Or, maybe, when faced with a real-life crisis and the need to act or make a vital decision, he might have just sat there like the bemused rabbit-in-the-headlights that he really is at heart?

Seems like an equally good explanation.

p.s. I hate Blair too.

I think most of us can agree that Cheney is the defacto president.

Bush without a speech or earpiece link can hardly articulate a lunch request let alone formulate national policy.

Which is why they left George reading about a goat and later flying to and fro between airbases while Cheney took command of the 9/11 shock and awe event.

I have no idea how much inside knowledge GW had but I believe Cheney knew the whole story!

MM

 

[stateofgrace]

Now we get to the lame desperate responses from people too lazy to read what they are responding to.

If you are an American agent of the SS, who is the most important person you have to protect? Duh.

If you have the most important person you are sworn to protect in your custody, in a well publicized location, during a developing National Security situation involving large hijacked airliners being used as missiles, would the thought not occur to you that until you know the complete picture, maybe, just maybe it would be prudent to move this most important person to a location unpublicized to the general public and would be terrorists? Would it not occur to you that the PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES might be a popular target selection for terrorists? Is it a risk the manual would suggest taking?

The stuff you folks will say just to avoid conceding something is odd.

MM

Excuse me?

How exactly did the secret service fail to protect the President on 911?

He was under no IMMIDIATE Threat, duh.

You simply pull it out of your arse don't you? Just make up rubbish to suit your sad view of world events.

Now, MM, List exactly the protocols the Secret service broke on 911, with links and with facts.

Incidentally they are the Secret Service, please refer to these people as such, your lame use of ss, is as pathetic as your responses.

Equally so there is no IF in the word fact, stop using it.

 

[Miragememories]

Concede what? You are SPECULATING you moron. What is there to concede. If you havent got the answer from the horses mouth, than you are speculating...which is practically worthless.

TAM

Hmm. So questioning the events of the day without getting the official statement from all the horses involved makes me a moron.

I hate to think how much history we would know today if we depended strictly on statements from the key participants.

T.A.M. you might label it as worthless speculation because speculation is nothing more than "thinking about", which in your case, by your own definition, represents moronic behaviour.

I intend to continue "thinking about" anything and everything that seems out of place. It's good way to survive in life and it's immensely helpful in understanding the events of the day.

Thinking is good for you. You should try it some time.

MM

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

No, acting like a moron makes you a moron.

 

[twinstead]

I intend to continue "thinking about" anything and everything that seems out of place. It's good way to survive in life and it's immensely helpful in understanding the events of the day.

Thinking is good for you. You should try it some time.

MM

BS. You are accusing innocent people of MASS MURDER. You'd better be doing more than just 'thinking' or STFU.

 

[Miragememories]

Excuse me?

How exactly did the secret service fail to protect the President on 911?

He was under no IMMIDIATE Threat, duh.

You simply pull it out of your arse don't you? Just make up rubbish to suit your sad view of world events.

Now, MM, List exactly the protocols the Secret service broke on 911, with links and with facts.

Incidentally they are the Secret Service, please refer to these people as such, your lame use of ss, is as pathetic as your responses.

Equally so there is no IF in the word fact, stop using it.

In a developing situation where even NORAD was unable to cope, how can you qualify the president's position in a well announced public location as threat free?

How could the UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE be so sure that quickly unless they had inside knowledge or were ordered by superiors to maintain their current status?

MM

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

In a developing situation where even NORAD was unable to cope, how can you qualify the president's position in a well announced public location as threat free?

How could the UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE be so sure that quickly unless they had inside knowledge or were ordered by superiors to maintain their current status?

MM

Enough with the red herring. Unless you can demonstrate definitively that the USSS actions that day deviated from SOP then you are building conjecture upon a faulty assumption. Then again, maybe you are well aware of that and would rather accuse innocent people of heinous crimes just to satisfy you perverted little fantasies.