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Cass Report

You think we can't claim to know the effect insulin injections will have on non-diabetic people, without actually running a trial?

Honestly, there is a lot of evidence of harm already available. Several countries have looked at this and banned the treatments outright. Maybe we should have a trial of whether parachutes are useful in "treating" falls from planes? Because we can't claim to know without a formal trial, right?
 
Rolfe said:
Honestly, there is a lot of evidence of harm already available.
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Are you talking about retrospective studies in places which never banned puberty blockers? If so, it's hard to see how that supports your argument for a total and complete ban on gender medicine for minors in all places at all times—we wouldn't have that evidence if those jurisdictions didn't allow those treatments in the first place.
Rolfe said:
You snipped out a great deal from that post you just quoted.
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Time is short.
 
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Out of curiosity, did the (well researched and carefully reasoned) Cass Report recommend a total ban on gender medicine for minors?

(Again, I've been known to pose questions even when I've already linked to the answer.)
 
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Rolfe said:
As far as I am aware, the other indications they are used for at present (although I don't know which have official regulatory approval) are:
  • Prostate cancer in men
  • Breast cancer in women
  • Precocious puberty in children
  • Chemical castration of sex offenders
  • I have used them off-label as part of diagnostic testing, in very small one-off doses, in (female) adult animals.
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I can find documentation for FDA approval for prostate cancer, endometriosis, fibroids, and precocious puberty. From what I can tell, breast cancer and chemical castration are both off-label uses not approved by the FDA. Treating gender dysphoria in children is definitely not an FDA approved use.
 
d4m10n said:
Without studies such as the one under discussion, I'm not sure how we can claim to know this is true.
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Because we have some understanding of the mechanisms involved. We aren't flying completely blind here. Is there a chance that we're wrong? In principle. Is that likely? No. Given the risks involved, should we assume that we're wrong? Absolutely not.
 
Oh look what I found just minutes after typing the above. The USA seem to be ahead of Britain on this one.

www.transgendertrend.com

Landmark HHS Review takes the Cass Review much further - Transgender Trend

The HHS review is a groundbreaking review from the US Department of Health and Human Services that puts the Cass Review into a wider context.
www.transgendertrend.com www.transgendertrend.com

1764088272364.png

That is an excellent article and I recomment reading it in its entirety.
 
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d4m10n said:
Out of curiosity, did the (well researched and carefully reasoned) Cass Report recommend a total ban on gender medicine for minors?
(Again, I've been known to pose questions even when I've already linked to the answer.)
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Read it yourself.
 
When zealots on a mission to destroy children's minds and bodies are proposing to do serious harm, it's not the politicians I would be relying on to intervene.
 
Rolfe said:
This thread has gone remarkably quiet.
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I don't think there's much more to say until the results of the trials are peer reviewed and published.

If you're bored, you might be interested in the comments of the most vocal of the trans folk on the other forum I belong to, all prompted by the BBC article I linked above:

It's a complete farce. Conducted by SEGM, a hate group that wants trans extinction.

There has never been the slightest genuine reason for banning this LIFE SAVING treatment or holding these so-called trials, which will not teach anyone anything new, and will come to a pre-decided, fictional conclusion.

The whole thing is about eliminating trans people. Restricting the existence of trans people as far as possible. Making life unbearable by literally force transitioning a generation of trans children into their opposite gender.

The damage being done is unforgivable, and the people supporting it are just pure evil.
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There's no genuine safety concerns. PBs are not banned for cis kids, who are by far the biggest recipients of these meds.

They are banned only for trans kids, for whom they bring extremely high suicide rates down to normal and equalise wider life chances.

Which as a trans person who has had a stable gender identity since I was a toddler, and was put through the horror of the wrong puberty, and suffered the ongoing consequences to my mental health and wider life, I'm well qualified to talk about the absolutely appalling harm being done here, by evil, genocidal monsters, who want a world without trans people.
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Every single member of the panel is a genocidal, anti-trans Nazi.

This whole thing is a scandal. It's killing trans kids. People need to be going to prison for this, and I hope to see that day.

Thread...

https://bsky.app/profile/nickycdr.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3m674yqw4nk2l
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That's in the "entertaining fiction" category.

Edited by zooterkin: 
<SNIP> for rule 12.
 
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Rolfe said:
Read it yourself.
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AFAICT the answer is "No."
Darat said:
Politicians should not be asked to push their noses into clinical trials.
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I'd've guessed this would be the general consensus on a forum for science enjoyers, but once again politics is the mindkiller.
Rolfe said:

"PATHWAYS is therefore £10.7 million spent to partially re-create some of that data we already possess but have deliberately chosen not to examine."
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I don't find this claim particularly persuasive; Tavistock did not have any control group nor any randomization process. We could in theory generate matched controls from the set of GNC kids who sought treatment at the Tavi but who never received either blockers or hormones, but the reasons for their non-treatment will likely be confounded with psychological desistance.
 
Rolfe said:
They are going to take ten-year-old girls, who aren't interested in boys or sex yet, who just want to be left in a Never-Never-Land of climbing trees and building meccano dinosaurs, and give them drugs that will almost certainly sterilise them. They will offer them "fertility preservation" - have you any idea the stress that egg harvesting puts on even a post-puberty female body? They're going to offer to stimilate this child's ovaries before she has even started menstruating, and harvest the eggs, with all the risks that entails.
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I have qualms about the entire proposed trials. But this is appalling. Egg harvesting is painful and risky to begin with, and that's assuming a post-menarche female! Stimulating ovaries to mature eggs while simultaneously blocking the hormones that prompt egg maturation seems insanely reckless and negligent.
 
d4m10n said:
Animal studies mentioned here and the FDA already signed off on this drug for use in humans (along with other GnRH analogs) long before this became a hot button political issue.

See link above; animal studies already exist.
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Umm... Animals studies for cancer. Not for just straight up interrupting and derailing the pubertal process.

INDICATIONS AND USAGELUPRON INJECTION (leuprolide acetate) is indicated in the palliative treatment of advanced prostatic cancer
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