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NY Times Poll: Large Majority of DEMOCRATS Oppose Transgenders in Women's Sports

Sorry but this webpage disagrees with you, plus point guard is Caitlin Clark's position:
List of shortest players in NBA history - Wikipedia




And those 5'9'' guys are three inches shorter than her. Obviously, there's a precedent for Clark doing at least ok in the NBA, especially with her three-point skills.


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i don’t think providing a list that states only 27 players in the entire history of the nba have been that short disagrees with my position. i think it does the opposite, in fact
 
i don’t think providing a list that states only 27 players in the entire history of the nba have been that short disagrees with my position. i think it does the opposite, in fact


Yup, more squirming.

Keep it up.

I love it.


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i’m not particularly invested in any of this, and obviously not enough to get into that kind of bickering over it.
 
I agree with all that (even the sexist part). I sometimes get carried away with my sympathy for women's discrimination from a large part of the male population, but you should hear what some of them say about women in the locker room.

It's disgusting.
Oh I'm at least partially aware. My government issued spousal unit has a really low opinion of most of the male population, for the same reasons. There's some reasonable tolerance for the fact that regardless of our big frontal cortices, we're still animals... and males are highly sexually motivated in all sexually reproductive animal species. That comes with being a critter. But yeah, you're not wrong on that point.
ETA: Although I'm going to wait until after this before saying elite women athletes will lose against elite male athletes from the same sport:

Klay Thompson Open to NBA Three-Point Contest With Curry, Clark, Ionescu
Story by Tim Capurso




and then, there's this:

Caitlin Clark makes more history, surpassing Steph Curry’s three-point record
By Thomas Schlachter, CNN Published 7:29 AM EST, Sat March 9, 2024


And this is while on the floor doing all that same fancy stuff that men do during a game.

And if one thinks women aren't as rough as men on the floor, it's obvious you've never watched a WNBA game.

Plus, don't women spend less time on the court than men, so if that's true, this is even more impressive.


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Clark is phenomenal, and is definitely a exemplar in the WNBA... and maybe it's possible that she'll win out in a controlled contest like this. I wouldn't really be shocked. But again - Clark is *exceptional*, and far outside the normal range of elite female basketball players.

What you seem to keep whistling past is that if you take all of the WNBA and you put them in games against middle school male basketball players, the WNBA as a whole is going to lose 99% of the games. That's not a slam against female players, it's an acknowledgment that males and females are physically different. It's not just the presence or absence of boobies - there are a LOT of differences that are of material importance when it comes to sports.

Off the top, there's the simple reality of size, and in a whole lot of sports, size matters. Even when you control for size and compare a male and a female of the same height and physical volume, males have denser musculature with lower body fat - same sized males are simply stronger than females. Male muscles are also built different, with different amounts of fast-twitch fibers and some other bits I can't remember - so even if you have a female with unhealthily (for a female) low body fat of the same size, male muscles pound for pound are just straight-up more efficient at using energy.

Beyond all of that (and that's not nothing) males and females have different tendon, muscle, and ligament attachment points, and we have different pelvises. That pelvic structure means our legs move differently. When we're walking, females don't roll our hips for giggles, and it's not something we practice because dudes like it - it's because our femurs attach at a different angle. We "swish" because that's how our bodies evolved to walk. It's the result of our skeletons.

There are a few athletic events where females excel, mostly ones that benefit from being bendy. Like floor gymnastics and balance beam. But for other events even in gymnastics, strength is a bigger factor - it's why males far outperform females on the rings or vault.

Some events that might or might not qualify as sports depending on your perspective don't really have a lot of difference. For example, even though more males participate in target shooting, females perform on par. And even though males can draw a heavier bow, females are as accurate at the same draw weights.

I strongly support sports continuing to be separated on the basis of sex, not because I'm sexist, but because I understand that males and females have different bodies.
 
What you seem to keep whistling past is that if you take all of the WNBA and you put them in games against middle school male basketball players, the WNBA as a whole is going to lose 99% of the games. That's not a slam against female players, it's an acknowledgment that males and females are physically different. It's not just the presence or absence of boobies - there are a LOT of differences that are of material importance when it comes to sports.


Nope, not whistling past anything, because I've already acknowledged all of that as probably true.

What I'm against is people speculating about an outcome being that Caitlin Clark couldn't make it in the NBA just because she's a woman.

I've offered proof that there's a precedent that she probably could, and all I'm getting in return is squirming and more speculation.

I don't know what it is in your world, but speculation is not a fact in mine.


ETA: Yes, I'm also speculating, but I'm speculating with an open mind rather than one closed to the idea that she is that good.


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Yup, I love watching the male ego squirm, and I'm not even a woman.
I get that this might be your intention... but you know what they say about intentions, right?

What you're accomplishing is to implicitly make the argument that males should be allowed to compete on female teams against females because to do otherwise is sexist. And the outcome of that argument is that mediocre-at-best males will end up outplacing females from female teams.

You might not think it's a lot, but there are already close to 1000 places in female competitions that have been lost to males who are not remotely competitive against other males, but they have gendery feels so they feel entitled to take female positions and podium places.
 
I get that this might be your intention... but you know what they say about intentions, right?

What you're accomplishing is to implicitly make the argument that males should be allowed to compete on female teams against females because to do otherwise is sexist. And the outcome of that argument is that mediocre-at-best males will end up outplacing females from female teams.

You might not think it's a lot, but there are already close to 1000 places in female competitions that have been lost to males who are not remotely competitive against other males, but they have gendery feels so they feel entitled to take female positions and podium places.

Personally, I don't care about any of that.

I'm mostly on the fence about trans anyway.

I've also got data on all the trans that got beat by women.

Can you imagine being beaten by a woman? That must hurt, even if it's only a little.

Do you think they deserve some sympathy too?

I sure don't.


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What I'm against is people speculating about an outcome being that Caitlin Clark couldn't make it in the NBA just because she's a woman.
You frame this as if it were a sexist comment. As if people are placing some sort of value judgment on Clark as a result of their sex. You frame this in a way that implies "Clark couldn't make it in the NBA because women aren't worthy of being in the NBA".

But that's not what any of us are saying, not remotely. What we are saying is that it's extraordinarily unlikely that Clark would be anywhere near as accomplished if Clark were playing on a male team, because Clark is a female and females are built differently. Maybe they would make it on to the team - and that's already an amazing feat! But they wouldn't be competitive.

In the WNBA, competing against other females, Clark is the absolute best we've ever seen. Phenomenal, absolutely stellar.

In the NBA, competing against males, Clark would at best be mediocre, and very likely a pretty low ranked player. They certainly wouldn't compare to Michael Jordan or Shaquille O'Neil.

That's not a slam on Clark. It's not a slam on females at all. It's a recognition that the sexes have different bodies, nothing more.

Letterkenny has an episode where the female hockey team, the Shamrockettes, has won three back-to-back-to-back championships. There's a bit where the female team thinks they can take on the male team, because "women can do anything men can do". The coach for the male team pretty much tells them that no, they can't, because they're females. Their spines will snap, they'll be eating through a tube. Nobody questions that they're the absolute best female hockey team, that's proven and they're unquestionably awesome. But they're still female. If you have Hulu, it's definitely worth checking out. I think it's S7E5, but I'm not sure. The whole series is amazing, so if I'm off by an episode or two, it doesn't matter, they're all fantastic.
 
You frame this as if it were a sexist comment. As if people are placing some sort of value judgment on Clark as a result of their sex. You frame this in a way that implies "Clark couldn't make it in the NBA because women aren't worthy of being in the NBA".

But that's not what any of us are saying, not remotely. What we are saying is that it's extraordinarily unlikely that Clark would be anywhere near as accomplished if Clark were playing on a male team, because Clark is a female and females are built differently. Maybe they would make it on to the team - and that's already an amazing feat! But they wouldn't be competitive.

In the WNBA, competing against other females, Clark is the absolute best we've ever seen. Phenomenal, absolutely stellar.

In the NBA, competing against males, Clark would at best be mediocre, and very likely a pretty low ranked player. They certainly wouldn't compare to Michael Jordan or Shaquille O'Neil.

That's not a slam on Clark. It's not a slam on females at all. It's a recognition that the sexes have different bodies, nothing more.

Letterkenny has an episode where the female hockey team, the Shamrockettes, has won three back-to-back-to-back championships. There's a bit where the female team thinks they can take on the male team, because "women can do anything men can do". The coach for the male team pretty much tells them that no, they can't, because they're females. Their spines will snap, they'll be eating through a tube. Nobody questions that they're the absolute best female hockey team, that's proven and they're unquestionably awesome. But they're still female. If you have Hulu, it's definitely worth checking out. I think it's S7E5, but I'm not sure. The whole series is amazing, so if I'm off by an episode or two, it doesn't matter, they're all fantastic.


Nope, not being sexist at all.

I just don't like anybody (male or female) who uses speculation as a fact, and also, Clark might be mediocre at best, but her 3-point shooting ability probably won't be mediocre.


Caitlin Clark makes more history, surpassing Steph Curry’s three-point record


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Nope, not being sexist at all.

I just don't like anybody (male or female) who uses speculation as a fact, and also, Clark might be mediocre at best, but her 3-point shooting ability probably won't be mediocre.


Caitlin Clark makes more history, surpassing Steph Curry’s three-point record


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Wy do you keep posting the same thing over and over, as if we haven't already read and understood it?

With all friendliness, you're a weird dude. Reading your posts over the last few days makes me feel like I'm high! :LOL:
 
Wy do you keep posting the same thing over and over, as if we haven't already read and understood it?

With all friendliness, you're a weird dude. Reading your posts over the last few days makes me feel like I'm high! :LOL:


Yeah, I'll admit it, I'm a weird dude, but if you think what I posted here is weird. You should read my books, but I have to warn you, most maga weirdoes won't like it. I'm not saying you're one of those... It's just a general warning that I should've started giving out a long time ago.

They might even get banned in Florida.



pssssst I also like twisted humor...

Phoebe and Her Unicorn by Dana Simpson
474387181_122124432422400460_5797248813344922174_n.jpg



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Wy do you keep posting the same thing over and over, as if we haven't already read and understood it?

With all friendliness, you're a weird dude. Reading your posts over the last few days makes me feel like I'm high! :LOL:
She's no weirder than the rest of us. And as far as I'm concerned, weird is great. It gives life flavor.
 
Yup, I love watching the male ego squirm, and I'm not even a woman.


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Far be it for me to kink shame you.
Oh, I'll kink shame. Kink activity needs to be between consenting adults only. Anyone who indulges in their kink, in public, without first obtaining informed consent, needs to be shamed for their shameful behavior.
 
Oh, I'll kink shame. Kink activity needs to be between consenting adults only. Anyone who indulges in their kink, in public, without first obtaining informed consent, needs to be shamed for their shameful behavior.


I agree, but I don't need a permit to watch folks squirm. All I need is an internet connection.

BTW, I love the smell of squirming idiots in the morning, afternoon, or... well, just about any time really.


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Nope, not being sexist at all.

I just don't like anybody (male or female) who uses speculation as a fact, and also, Clark might be mediocre at best, but her 3-point shooting ability probably won't be mediocre.


Caitlin Clark makes more history, surpassing Steph Curry’s three-point record


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But is it really speculation? If so, science and engineering are in trouble.

It's less speculation and more making a prediction based on available data. We do this in science all the time. The available data is what we know about the athletic capabilities of males vs females paired with observations of watching WNBA and NPA games and observation of how Clark plays.

Are the predictions always right? of course not. The data suggests the chances of Spud Webb (5'6" I think) competing in the NBA are low. And of excelling in the NBA even lower. Webb of course, became a star. Probably by using other abilities, such as a 46 inch vertical jump to make up for the height disadvantage.

The point though, is that what you term speculation is really just interpretation of available data.
 
But is it really speculation? If so, science and engineering are in trouble.

It's less speculation and more making a prediction based on available data. We do this in science all the time. The available data is what we know about the athletic capabilities of males vs females paired with observations of watching WNBA and NPA games and observation of how Clark plays.

Are the predictions always right? of course not. The data suggests the chances of Spud Webb (5'6" I think) competing in the NBA are low. And of excelling in the NBA even lower. Webb of course, became a star. Probably by using other abilities, such as a 46 inch vertical jump to make up for the height disadvantage.

The point though, is that what you term speculation is really just interpretation of available data.

IMO, Interpretation is just another word for speculation.

Actually, I'm also speculating, but I'm speculating with an open mind, unlike those who say she would be destroyed, even though I've shown proof that it's quite possible that she could at least be mediocre in the NBA.

I also believe her 3-point skill could also make her better than just mediocre, but that's speculation too.

I'm not stating these as facts, but as speculation based on my interpretation of the evidence that I've seen, and I think it does give Clark a little bit of an edge.


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Oh, I'll kink shame. Kink activity needs to be between consenting adults only. Anyone who indulges in their kink, in public, without first obtaining informed consent, needs to be shamed for their shameful behavior.
There's no form of kink that is crazier than to dress up every Sunday to worship an invisible being that for four thousand years no one has been able to demonstrate.

It is far more shameful to pretend you're eating the blood and flesh of a dead human being than what anyone ever does in a dungeon. It may not be our cup of tea to spank or have someone spank us. But if that floats both your boats, more power to you.
 

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