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Should we fear the Democratic Party?

But while we are on this topic concerning the rust belt states, I would like to ask a question that I neglected to ask last time:

If Sanders is "the candidate we know they will have the toughest time with" then please explain why, in the 2016 primary, Sanders beat Clinton in both Wisconsin and Michigan?
Clinton was a terrible candidate with particularly high negatives in that portion of the Country.
I said as much at the time.
 
Unless Sanders comes into the convention with a mandate of 51% or more, nothing can be "stolen" from him- as nothing is his to begin with.


I'm genuinely curious: If Sanders does win the Democratic nomination, will you vote for him in the general?
 
Out of the two of us, I am the only one who has shown such a priority. I would enthusiastically support any nominee the Democrats puts forth. You want to alienate a large portion of the voter base in order to prevent one particular candidate from winning the nomination.
Anyone?

Far out

So not what is best for the country then?

""Pappa voted dem, granddaddy voted dem, and goddammit great granddad did. Get me my grits women"
 
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Unless Sanders comes into the convention with a mandate of 51% or more, nothing can be "stolen" from him- as nothing is his to begin with.

I tend to agree. Sanders supporters will not. I think an open primary system is an utterly stupid way of going about choosing party leadership, and even candidacies to public offices. However, that's the way the Democrats have chosen to do it, and having a primary and then ignoring the votes of the plurality will have adverse consequences.
 
Even if I bought as a general principle the myth that the way to win is to mimic Hillary and Kerry and Algore and Mondale, and running somebody more like what Bill and Obama claimed to be during their campaigns is the way to lose... I'd still have to notice how well this particular round is set up to go the other way anyway.

Not only has this particular progressive already been the country's most popular politician for years, with the highest favorability even with voters for whom he's not their top choice, and among almost all demographic segments, but also, look at who the not-progressive options are...

The guy who's literally trying to just buy his way in (including buying changes in the rules when he can't get in by the original rules) after having previously always supported the other side and thus contributed to the situation we're in now, and reacts like a deer in headlights when he's confronted for the first time in years by somebody he hasn't already bought off?

The guy who can't remember where he is or what he's supposed to say half of the time, keeps flying off on crazy rants that have nothing to do with the situation, has a history of doing & saying stuff that most of the party's voters identify with the other party, occasionally takes a break from grabbing & pawing at little girls to grab & paw at a woman instead (although there was also that one time it was a man), has had no campaign activity of any kind in a Super Tuesday state in over a month, keeps making up serious "wannabe" stuff about his past, and bases his campaign on an implied endorsement of a disappointing former President who hasn't endorsed him and tried to talk him out of running, whose name he forgets?

The lady who's had several popular policy ideas in the past but also a history of flipping, whose campaign has been downhill since her latest few flips and her decision to make exactly the kind of ridiculous accusation that could have most easily been predicted to obviously backfire on the accuser, and finally ended up resorting to the same kind of "but I'm a woman (the only one in politics ever)!!!!!" theme that served Hillary so well and is currently doing the same for her?

They guy whose claim to fame at first consisted entirely of being openly gay but has now come to include either willingly & deliberately or just obliviously participating in a city-wide racist conspiracy at the behest of his big-money donors, who does a more surprised & angry-looking version of the deer-in-headlights thing when challenged, whose response to the issue of where his donations were coming from was to create a donor contest that was really transparently an attempt to fake better donor statistics, and who has never had more than a few percentage points of support outside of a few pockets of exceptional whiteness?

And that's without mentioning something they have in common (except maybe Warren to whatever extent), which is that even their own supporters generally don't really support them for who they actually are or what policies they actually propose, and can't come up with a reason why anybody should vote for them beyond "well you just have to settle for this mediocrity anyway". ("Like I did", in Mrs Biden's case)

Even if this bunch were the current representatives of a group that's more likely to win as a general rule, these particular examples of that group would be the ones who find a way to let it down anyway.
 
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"Perhaps polls this early can be misleading, here, have a poll that says so". :rolleyes:

LOL!
Take out the polling, and what is left to make an assertion that Sanders is the most likely to defeat Trump in the general?

Please, enlighten me. Other than the current polls, what tells you that Sanders is the most electable?
A "gut feeling" maybe?
 
The corresponding Bernie thread is about the policies he might push if elected.

This thread seems to be about fear that the Democrats will fail to advance any policy at all.

So I'm thinking, no. We should not fear the Democratic party. Even if they nominate Bernie Sanders, they won't accomplish anything worth being in scared of.

Should we fear the Democrat party? No. Why would we?
 
The corresponding Bernie thread is about the policies he might push if elected.

This thread seems to be about fear that the Democrats will fail to advance any policy at all.

So I'm thinking, no. We should not fear the Democratic party. Even if they nominate Bernie Sanders, they won't accomplish anything worth being in scared of.

Should we fear the Democrat party? No. Why would we?

Fear that Democratic Party officials will sabotage their own chances to beat Trump with an anti-Bernie screwjob that'd give Bret Hart PTSD.

It just might hand the election to Trump due to widespread backlash against the party.
 
The corresponding Bernie thread is about the policies he might push if elected.

This thread seems to be about fear that the Democrats will fail to advance any policy at all.

So I'm thinking, no. We should not fear the Democratic party. Even if they nominate Bernie Sanders, they won't accomplish anything worth being in scared of.

Should we fear the Democrat party? No. Why would we?
The Party is certainly capable of metaphorically shooting itself in the foot and subsequently failing to remove a corrupt and corrosive influence from American political life.

We should fear that that could happen.
 
Do feel a bit for the yanks .

You lot ain't exactly spoiled for choice whether looking at one side or the other or both together.

It will work out though

Always does
 
Is that your proposed course of action then? Because you feel like Bernie will lose the general election, the Democratic super delegates should support someone else in order to keep Bernie from getting the candidacy, even if he has a plurality of delegates?

I find it funny how you write, "even if" suggesting that plurality should matter without backing it up.

Why? Why should plurality even be considered relevant?
 
You don't agree with it why?
Gut feeling?


Nope. Because I think what a poll about y says about x is trumped by what a poll about x says about x. Polls show Sanders beating Trump and secondary polls will not change that fact.
 
Take out the polling, and what is left to make an assertion that Sanders is the most likely to defeat Trump in the general?

Please, enlighten me. Other than the current polls, what tells you that Sanders is the most electable?
A "gut feeling" maybe?


Why would I take out the polling? It's the best resource to base our expectations on.

You're confusion is honestly beginning to mystify me.
 
If you don't know the answer to that then you have been paying very little attention.
Too little, IMO, to critique my opinion.


I don't pay attention to every single thing you post, your highness.

Get over it.

Why the unnecessary obfuscation? Just answering the question would have been a quicker thing to type up. :rolleyes:
 
I find it funny how you write, "even if" suggesting that plurality should matter without backing it up.

Why? Why should plurality even be considered relevant?

It's not so much by policy as it is by convention. I don't know of anything written down that says the candidate with the most delegates by July must be chosen, probably 'cause it doesn't exist.

But within recent memory that's the way it has been. And it's not something the electorate will easily forget if there is a break from it.
 

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