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ISIS teenager wants to come home

isissxn said:
Maybe this is a really dumb thing to think (I'm assuming it must be since no one else has really brought it up), or maybe I've just seen a bit too much Homeland, but wouldn't a real concern of taking these people back be that they could then become terrorists on UK soil? Unless they're jailed literally for life upon return, couldn't they be playing the long game?

I'm NOT saying they should or would be jailed for life. I'm just asking - is this a realistic concern?
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An unrepentant Jihadi might be a terrorist threat? Please, stop talking common sense!
 
As I said

baron said:
The US has openly stated the UK is too soft on returning terrorists and, tired of the UK government's lack of concrete action, wants to stick them all in Guantanamo.
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It will only be solved if they get to her before she gets to a consulate, assuming the UK don't man up during that period.

One option the UK may have is to make her subject of an exclusion order, meaning she can't return to the UK within a two year period, then hope she's either killed, taken to Guantanamo or undergoes a change of mind. Or, possibly, new legislation can be introduced in the interim period to ensure she can never return.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Read the article. She regrets nothing and liked the ISIS lifestyle. She had to flee because the alternative was a nice greeting from home in form of a bomb on the head, and that danger is still not over:
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If I start a bar fight and then grab a child and use it to absorb a punch meant for me that's on me, not the guy throwing the punch.
 
sadhatter said:
If I start a bar fight and then grab a child and use it to absorb a punch meant for me that's on me, not the guy throwing the punch.
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It's actually a fundamental principle of war crimes: The combatant who mingles with civilians is responsible for the civilian harm that arises from attempts to put a stop to him.

Caveat: Those attempting to stop him must still adhere to the principles of military necessity and proportionality, or be liable for war crimes themselves.

I'm not sure "guy blocking a punch in a bar fight" is a great analogy. On the other hand, "guy setting up a command post in a hospital" is usually a legit target for airstrikes, and the harm to the hospital and its occupants is entirely on him. Similarly, "soldier who bivouacs with his family" is the one responsible for his family's safety, not the ones attacking him. See also, "enemy commander who attends a wedding".
 
I guess we'll have to wait and see if the UK does allow her back. Apparently the law at present does require the UK to accept the return of all UK nationals, even in situations like this, so she could appoint lawyers who would press that case against any opposition from the UK government.

On the other hand, a number of lawyers and security experts and others have been interviewed on BBC radio over the last couple of days, and they say there are various precedents for either delaying the implementation of that law (i.e. Ms Begum may have to sit about waiting for up to two years whilst the legal issues are resolved), or else there are ways in which that specific law could be overruled anyway. On top of which government spokesmen have made it clear that they do not want her back in this country if she poses any possible risk at all (though government MP's often say things like that, and then later have to change their minds).
 
We have the Canadian version only ours is 46 years old and claims she joined up on a "humanitarian mission". Save the women and children. She claims she "didn't know all the politics".

She just decided to throw on a tent and enter a war zone ? She's 46 years old.

Link
 
slightly offtopic:
what is the situation re: committing what would be considered crimes in the country you are from, in other countries?

for example, Irish citizens coming to the UK to get abortions because it's illegal in ireland, they do not get arrested or punished when they get back to Ireland as far as I know?

another example, In japan the legal age of consent is 13, if a UK citizen sleeps with a 14 year old in japan, do they get arrested when they get back to the UK?

Or a really good example, what if a UK citizen goes to saudi arabia and gets a job being an executioner, or a hand lopper offa, do they get arrested when they get back to the UK?
 
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Stout said:
We have the Canadian version only ours is 46 years old and claims she joined up on a "humanitarian mission". Save the women and children. She claims she "didn't know all the politics".

She just decided to throw on a tent and enter a war zone ? She's 46 years old.

Link
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Either she is lying or she is Darwin Award level stupid.
 
IanS said:
I guess we'll have to wait and see if the UK does allow her back. Apparently the law at present does require the UK to accept the return of all UK nationals, even in situations like this, so she could appoint lawyers who would press that case against any opposition from the UK government.

On the other hand, a number of lawyers and security experts and others have been interviewed on BBC radio over the last couple of days, and they say there are various precedents for either delaying the implementation of that law (i.e. Ms Begum may have to sit about waiting for up to two years whilst the legal issues are resolved), or else there are ways in which that specific law could be overruled anyway. On top of which government spokesmen have made it clear that they do not want her back in this country if she poses any possible risk at all (though government MP's often say things like that, and then later have to change their minds).
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They don't really get a choice
 
p0lka said:
slightly offtopic:
what is the situation re: committing what would be considered crimes in the country you are from, in other countries?

for example, Irish citizens coming to the UK to get abortions because it's illegal in ireland, they do not get arrested or punished when they get back to Ireland as far as I know?

another example, In japan the legal age of consent is 13, if a UK citizen sleeps with a 14 year old in japan, do they get arrested when they get back to the UK?

Or a really good example, what if a UK citizen goes to saudi arabia and gets a job being an executioner, or a hand lopper offa, do they get arrested when they get back to the UK?
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I believe you could have been prosecuted in Ireland for having an abortion in the UK, although the law is changing in Ireland now. And I am pretty sure that almost anyone could be prosecuted in Japan for sex with minors. The 13 is a red herring and really only refers to a standard across the whole of Japan. It definitely does not mean that sex with 14 year olds is legal as other city or prefectural rules vary according to circumstance, the age, the sex, the relationship of the participants. But essentially it makes it illegal for sex with school children at least up to 16 and usually up to 18 (if they are still in high school for example) and sometimes up to 20.
 
angrysoba said:
True enough. They seem to be endlessly confused by the Irish border and how it cannot be open if you leave the EU.
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Yeah.

That looks like a massive can of worms.

I heard an interview a few weeks ago saying they had 1000 UK police being trained to man a border again over Brexit.

Stupid times
 
Although she was a kid when she was groomed at some point she has to treated as the adult she now is. So if she returned she should be put on trail and if found guilty jailed etc.

As for her child, it should be removed as soon as possible and placed for adoption, her immediate family should not be able to apply for custody, they have shown they are unfit to raise children.
 
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