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Need Help in Explaining a THESIS statement better

truethat

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truethat
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Sep 10, 2007
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I wanted to get some feedback and HELP in trying to explain something VERY VERY SIMPLE to graduate level students writing an essay for a state exam.

First the state exam is not like the GRE, it's a BASIC test where they are looking for writing on the level of high school students. In other words the evaluators are not college professors, they are just rubric using evaluators that are going down a checklist of requirements.


One requirement is that they write a basic thesis statement. Now I have spent a YEAR trying to find the most simplistic way to explain this to my students and they just DON'T GET IT. It boggles the mind. So I thought I'd post here for some suggestions. I think I'm not understanding what I'm saying in how they are UNDERSTANDING IT.

The biggest problem I have are sophisiticated writers who can't just step it down and keep it simple. Here is what is is in my handout for the class.

Not having a proper thesis statement

I don’t know how so many people managed to get into graduate schools without knowing how to write a proper thesis statement but this is a huge problem. It’s such a big problem that evaluators will often
flat out fail the essay from the onset if there is not a proper thesis statement.

The thesis statement should follow these guidelines:
• It should be the last sentence in the introduction
• It should be a declarative statement (NO>>>‘in my opinion” “I believe” “I agree”)
• It should CLEARLY take a side in the argument
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• It should give two reasons for taking the side that will be discussed in the following paragraphs.

Wrong Examples:

I believe that the Endangered Species Act is a good idea. <<<< This is NOT a thesis statement

Both authors make good points that we should consider. <<<<< This is NOT a thesis statement

In this essay I plan to discuss the controversy surrounding the use of cell phones in cars. <<<<NO!

The recent controversy surrounding the Catch Share management system causes us to consider the issues related to the long term impact on the social and economic issues that this policy will have on future generations and the way we can take steps to protect jobs in the fishing industry.

<<<<<NO! This is NOT a thesis statement. A really long sophisticated sentence does not a thesis statement make!!

Correct Examples:

The Endangered Species Act is a necessary law that should be supported because it protects the environment and encourages social responsibility. <<<<This is a thesis statement

Use of cell phones in cars should be prohibited because it is a dangerous practice and encourages irresponsible driving. <<<<<This is a thesis statement.

It is imperative that the United States continues to support local farmers because it will sustain localcommunities and help protect the environment. <<<<This is a thesis statement.
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Last night I worked with a very good writer and it took me HOURS to get her to follow the directions.

Below I will list what she sent as thesis statements

As taxpayers and naturist, we must look to the future and recognize that privatization of national parks benefits no one, except those with deep pockets.
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This is wrong, she doesn't list two reasons she will discuss in the next two paragraphs

We worked for an HOUR explaining this and going to watch videos, practicing writing etc etc etc

Then she sent me this

Public parks shouldn't become privatized--they stand to gain very little from the interference of privately owned companies looking to make a profit on our nation's greatest assets.
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NO!! There are not two REASONS. GRRRRRRRRRRR


Finally after 6 hours I got this

Privatizing parks will only ruin them, by commercializing the park experience and driving out low-income families that can't afford the admittance fees.
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Perfect.


I can't for the life of me understand how else to explain it. I've tried saying it's a specific requirement that must look a specific way. Yadda Yadda Yadda.

What's odd is that my worst writers will pass the exam with flying colors and my good writers will often fail it by just a few points because they don't have the kind of thesis statement they are looking for.

:confused::confused:
ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED.
 
Tell them to stop trying to write.

No one is going to actually read it or care about what it says, only skim it to see if the requirements are met. The last sentence of the introduction is the "thesis statement" and is the only one they're going to read, so it needs to have X, Y, and Z. Specifically, It needs to say OPINION because REASON ONE and REASON TWO.

It will be ungainly.
It will not flow well with the next paragraph, or at all.
It will be godawful writing. Some of the worst they've written in years.

But as long as X, Y and Z are met, the graders won't care. So they shouldn't care. They don't get points for eloquent loquaciousness, they get points for X, and Y, and Z, in that order. Tell them to hold their nose and just get it done.
 
As I was taught eons ago: The thesis of the paper should present the central idea and the following paragraphs should buttress the idea. The students should recall speakers who wander through many unconnected rambles and confuse the listener. Its an organizer in a way.
 
Thanks for the replies I am hoping to get more. I'm curious if my explanation is CLEAR to you guys or am I writing and explaining it in a way that can be confusing. The other thing they do is when they DO finally get the thesis statement down, the subsequent paragraphs don't match their reasons.

Example the woman who wrote this

Privatizing parks will only ruin them, by commercializing the park experience and driving out low-income families that can't afford the admittance fees.
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went on to write paragraph two about corruption in the system and paragraph 3 about low income families.

She should have written paragraph 2 commercializing the park experience paragraph 3 driving out low in come families.

It's like they aren't getting that it has to MATCH. I've told them that the thesis statement informs the reader which side you are on the two things you will dicuss in the next two paragraphs.

They still don't get it.
 
It still sounds to me like they don't understand they're supposed to be following a strict formula, and that any deviation from it (bad OR good) is penalized. The number one lesson in standardized writing exams is that you aren't writing. Trying to add the tiniest jot of creativity or eloquence to the formula just makes the grader take longer to get through your witty verbiage, which always counts against you.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
It still sounds to me like they don't understand they're supposed to be following a strict formula, and that any deviation from it (bad OR good) is penalized. The number one lesson in standardized writing exams is that you aren't writing. Trying to add the tiniest jot of creativity or eloquence to the formula just makes the grader take longer to get through your witty verbiage, which always counts against you.
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This is a good point. Can I copy this into my class notes? Do you mind?
 
I get paid to write. I understand what you said. Your explanation is clear.

Thesis statement:
"These people do not understand the exercise because they are pigheaded and stupid."

Next para: Evidence for pigheadedness...
Next para: Evidence for stupidity...
Next para: An excellent recipe for chocolate chip cookies
Next para: Data demonstrating how stupid people cannot follow the recipe
Next para: Heartwarming story about my stupid aunt donating her organs
Next para: Call for immediate execution of stupid people as a social good
Last para: Conclusion/restatement of thesis.
 
This isn't the type of advice that you are seeking, but I would recommend that you adjust the tone of your writing, particularly in the opening sentence: "I don’t know how so many people managed to get into graduate schools without knowing how to write a proper thesis statement[,] but this is a huge problem." It's nasty and condescending. More importantly, what follows is not a definition or description of a "proper thesis statement." It's a description of the kind of thesis statement that is expected on this particular test. A thesis statement can appear in the guise of a long, sophisticated sentence in certain circumstances, and "proper" thesis statements do not have to include two reasons. You're not teaching them how to write a "proper thesis statement." You're teaching them how to write a completely formulaic thesis statement for a specific, dreary, formulaic task. The kind of thesis statement you describe may or may not be appropriate for their graduate school work, but it certainly isn't the only kind of "proper thesis statement."

I managed to get a high school diploma and a B.A., M.A., and Ph.D. in English literature without ever consciously thinking about creating a thesis statement. As a college writing instructor, I discuss claims and thesis statements with my students. I want their point and their organization to be clear, but I don't really care if they write a thesis statement that screams, "Look at me--I'm a thesis statement!" at the end of the first paragraph. Indeed, I would prefer not to read hundreds of papers in a semester that all follow the same dismal formula. So, please, focus on the requirements of the test. Don't make it sound as if these requirements are the same as the requirements for good writing. And don't begin by expressing contempt for their non-formulaic writing styles.
 
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It seems to be quite negative, concentrating on what not to write rather than on what to write. I don't know what a thesis statement is but it seems to me from what you say it is an opinion with two supporting reasons.

Give the students a worksheet with three lines. One titled "opinion" and the next two "reason 1" and "reason 2". Have them fill out the lines with the information you asked for and then connect them together. Then you can edit the statement for language use.

That way you have broken the task down into its components. Also provide good models that the students can use to compare heir statements.
 
Are you having them write outlines first?

That used to help my SAT students get their thoughts in order.
 
A clear thesis statement is the most important part of a thesis because it notifies the reader of what to expect and it is required to get a good grade.

How's that? ;)


I'm with you. Your instructions were clear and your examples were excellent. It really shouldn't be a problem for high school students, let alone graduate students.
 
I like tables.

Given the conflict, "your face versus my butt":

Element | Fragment Pick a Side |My butt
Reason 1 |It looks prettier
Reason 2 |It smells nicer

Now that the table is filled out, make one sentence that includes all three values in as few words as possible:

My butt is better than your face because it looks prettier and smells nicer.
 
theprestige said:
I like tables.

Given the conflict, "your face versus my butt":

Element | Fragment Pick a Side |My butt
Reason 1 |It looks prettier
Reason 2 |It smells nicer

Now that the table is filled out, make one sentence that includes all three values in as few words as possible:

My butt is better than your face because it looks prettier and smells nicer.
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My butt looks prettier; it smells nicer.
 
Lucian said:
This isn't the type of advice that you are seeking, but I would recommend that you adjust the tone of your writing, particularly in the opening sentence: "I don’t know how so many people managed to get into graduate schools without knowing how to write a proper thesis statement[,] but this is a huge problem." It's nasty and condescending. More importantly, what follows is not a definition or description of a "proper thesis statement." It's a description of the kind of thesis statement that is expected on this particular test. A thesis statement can appear in the guise of a long, sophisticated sentence in certain circumstances, and "proper" thesis statements do not have to include two reasons. You're not teaching them how to write a "proper thesis statement." You're teaching them how to write a completely formulaic thesis statement for a specific, dreary, formulaic task. The kind of thesis statement you describe may or may not be appropriate for their graduate school work, but it certainly isn't the only kind of "proper thesis statement."
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That was my thinking - along with noting a thesis statement does not have to be a position. We aren't always writing persuasive or argumentative tracts.

A thesis statement describes what the paper is about.


But I'm just a heavy equipment operator. On the outskirts of Denali National Park, where I see zero low income people entering. The vast majority are middle and upper class cruise ship tourists. The next largest class fly, also something low income people don't do. Your student is filled with the propaganda the wealthier classes use to justify using the payroll tax on the low income people to fund their recreational administrative expenses up here.

I did academic writing on this whole area, did a survey for the Denali Borough Planning Commission for their land use plan and right now am developing property for Holland America Princess. Kind of funny rampaging on bulldozers and excavators all day amidst all these preservationists.
 
theprestige said:
Semicolons should be avoided in all writing, as they are semantically and grammatically unnecessary.
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Orwell's last in a short list of rules:

Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.
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Politics and the English Language

http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/

To truethat: If you work with groups, consider a workshop approach. It might begin with a PowerPoint presentation, using some of the material on your handout. Each student could be instructed to write a sample thesis statement. I'd give them about 2 minutes. Then they could critique the samples as a group. Repeat as necessary.

I like all the ideas offered here (outlining, tables, worksheets) and especially the examples. Maybe putting the "right" examples first would help. Not necessarily, though.

Your example with the student pretty much nails a problem many people have with writing: They are afraid to get to the point, to be direct - perhaps conditioned to swaddle their actual thoughts in layers of cotton wool. If you are doing many of your exchanges by email, try radically condensing the pace of the exchanges. Give them a 5-minute response deadline. They will have less time to second-guess themselves. This also means you have to respond pretty much right away and I don't know how that would fit in with your other work.

I have to remind myself a lot that students aren't being obtuse just to frustrate me. Venting that frustration (to them) doesn't help. The message to project is that writing a thesis statement is easy and can be mastered quickly - not that you expect failure because of repeated disappointments.

Writing an outline will help them avoid drifting into irrelevancy. They are to thoroughly expand their thesis and are forbidden to bring up topics not addressed in the thesis.

You know all of this, of course. Keep up the good fight.
 
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