Merged General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 2

[Mycroft]

Well, Israel wants to maintain a Jewish state, meaning non-Jews will not be allowed to live as full fledged citizens of their State.

Wrong.

All the foundation documents of Israel from the Balfour declaration to Israel's Basic Law guarantee equal rights and protections for its citizens regardless of religion.

"Jewish State" in this context means culturally Jewish, granting a "Right of Return" to Jewish people worldwide to become citizens of Israel, celebrating Jewish Holidays, and having Hebrew as it's official language. Even there they compromise, having Arabic and English also as official languages, and celebrating Muslim holidays as well.

 

[Ziggurat]

Dud...i wasn't trying to make you look foolish. I was trying to help.

I mean, it seemed to me that you were drifting to the "Dark Side".

You were quoting favorably from a source that found amusement in the death of Jews. And I'm the one drifting to the "Dark Side"?

As the great master Yoda once said about the Dark Side:

I got the reference. But I don't take my moral guidance from the author of Howard the Duck.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Suffering leads to the Fox News Channel."

Incoherent nonsense, even in the original. Here, watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIWKMgJs_Gs&t=3m54s

 

[Mycroft]

I think your "tripping out". I think you are trying to read other people' minds.

I'm just stating what I observe.

Israel isn't claiming to be a victim, but people constantly demand that it's representatives justify their not playing victim.

The air strikes against Gaza are not the act of a victim, they're the actions of a people who refuse to be victims.

The constant haranguing about how many Gaza citizens are killed in a fight that Hamas started and refuses to stop...that's claiming victim-hood.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

If you all can break away from playing with Kumar and Jules for a second, news is Israel just started a ground invasion of Gaza. Holding my breath.

www.idfblog.com/blog/2014/07/17/idf-begins-ground-operation-gaza/

 

[dudalb]

If you all can break away from playing with Kumar and Jules for a second, news is Israel just started a ground invasion of Gaza. Holding my breath.

Between this and the Airliner being shot down on the Ukraine/Russian Border this is turning into one of those 'I want to just go under the covers and hide" kind of day.

 

[Mycroft]

Not as formaly as that, but then again they never accepted it as their founding document as formaly.
But yes. They don't consider themselves bound by it, and prefer their election program. Ask them.

Jeebus that's ignorant.

For many years now Hamas and Fatah have been struggling to form a "Unity government" to be able to negotiate with Israel and (if Hamas gets its way) to present a united front against Israel.

What's the problem? Hamas wants out of every agreement the Palestine National Authority under Fatah has ever negotiated with Israel, and Hamas believes Fatah isn't anti-Israel enough. It's commonly heard among Hamas fan-boys that Abbas, head of Fatah, the PNA, Arafat's former right-hand man and the guy who wrote his doctoral thesis supporting holocaust denial, is the "Collaborator in Chief" because he might someday make peace with Israel.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

No...the Israelis remind me most of the Klingons - but Klingons who are woosies. Thus, these types of Klingons would fly all over the galaxy and beat their chest and boast a lot. And, they'd whup arse on races that didn't have warp-powered Starships or Phasers - and they would claim this proved their military might. But the first time some Andorian ship shot a Photon Torpedo across their bow, they'd run back to the Homeworld like a scalded dog.

I doubt even /pol/ would take this argument remotely seriously.

 

[Jules Galen]

If you all can break away from playing with Kumar and Jules for a second, news is Israel just started a ground invasion of Gaza. Holding my breath.

www.idfblog.com/blog/2014/07/17/idf-begins-ground-operation-gaza/

And Israel will fail again...just like they did the last 2 invasions of Gaza.

But...a lot of Arabs will be killed and property destroyed...so that should get someone's rocks off. However, when it is all over, Hamas will still be in charge.

See how easy it is to see the future?




Hey...perhaps the solution to all problems isn't Military Force?

 

[DreadNiK]

I mean, is anyone taking this **** seriously?

*de-lurk*

why would anyone take him seriously? I can't decide who is worse, this childlike poser (sp? poseur?) 'Jules' or him, but I think stuff like

"The Americans and the Israeli unfortunately do not care at all about the children killed as their are in their power trip.
They think God has given them the right to kill anyone they want just as they have nukes.
Hamas does not need a better PR, they need more guns and more nukes."

seals it for him.

*re-lurk*

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Between this and the Airliner being shot down on the Ukraine/Russian Border this is turning into one of those 'I want to just go under the covers and hide" kind of day.

It is.

Hamas has sworn itself to endless war against Israel. Its suicide bombers have targeted buses, schools, restaurants, malls, and more. Its rocket launching squads have fired more than thousands of rockets in the past decade, making life intolerable not only for Israeli communities near the Gaza border, but also in major cities including Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Beersheba, Ashdod, and Ashkelon. The Israel Defense Forces will operate wherever necessary in order to protect the people of Israel.

(from the link I posted above)


This is why it's not a good idea to go all "total war" against a superior enemy.

 

[dudalb]

Yeah, the Solution is for the Israelis to stand by and let themselves be slaughtered....

The Military force comment is really funny considering the way Jules have been cheering HAMAS on.

 

[Ziggurat]

Hey...perhaps the solution to all problems isn't Military Force?

Ever considered telling this to Hamas?

 

[BStrong]

Israel is going into Gaza

http://www.timesofisrael.com/on-day...fforts-gather-pace-but-hamas-israel-fight-on/

This will be an interesting day in world history, and something tells me our current resident doomsday predictor will be ecstatic.

 

[dudalb]

And the thing about Jules is I don't even think he is sincere. He is just trolling.

 

[timhau]

Just hours after the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crashed, which in CT world is proof that yes, it was Da Joos again.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Hey...perhaps the solution to all problems isn't Military Force?

Dawned on you in the end, didn't it. Problem is, they just never seem to learn. Once the IDF is done beating them into a pulp, they get right to licking wounds and preparing for their next wave of rockets, suicide bombers and messages of hatred and genocide.

I really fear for the civilians of Gaza now, but I honestly can't really blame the IDF for being fed up and wanting to end this cycle once and for all.

 

[dudalb]

Alex Jones will be even more insane then usual......

 

[Jules Galen]

Ever considered telling this to Hamas?

I think Hamas kind of knows, too. I mean think about the Photo of that Palestinian Child lying dead on the beach. Think about how many people around the world saw that photo....Billions of people! Now think about the rancid-moral stench that's just rubbed off on Israel as a result.

Man...a squadron of F-16s and a dozen Merkava tanks can't undo this kind of damage. And now I hear that Israel has decided to invade Gaza...and make it worse.

What? Is Israel just addicted to riding the Fail Train?

 

[Jono]

And Israel will fail again...just like they did the last 2 invasions of Gaza.

But...a lot of Arabs will be killed and property destroyed...so that should get someone's rocks off. However, when it is all over, Hamas will still be in charge.

See how easy it is to see the future?




Hey...perhaps the solution to all problems isn't Military Force?

Israel is making a predictable pig's breakfast out it. Hamas is winning yards with every inch of further aggression from the israelis. They're the winners of this fight. Not in bodies (warm or cold) but of the leverage it gives them, at least in a short-term spec. The losers in this case are, as usual, the residents of Gaza who are under the spell of loaded 'myopica' and, well... basically believing the lie that they have less and less to add to this fight except their own blood.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[dudalb]

Now whether or not it is a good move from a Military point of view remains to be seen;Urban Combat voids a lot of Israel's technical advantage and urban combat is always messy and dangerous (Stalingrad, anyone?)
But can't blame Israel for this reaction.